Can this be done???

[91DakotaFreak]

OK I hope you guys can help me on this one or at least give me some ideas. I have a 91 Regular Cab Dakota with the pre mag 318 TBI with the A500 and 3.55 suregrip. What i was wondering is What needs to be done to get this to run 12's. I estimate now that it runs high 14's to mid 15's My goal is to make a a normally aspirated (No juice or forced induction) daily/weekend driver. If possible i would like to keep it a 318 but I have also thought about do a crate motor swap and putting the 360/380 in it or finding a 440 and rubuilding it to be a street/stip motor. I plan on changing the gears to 4.10 and possibly changing the trans to a 727 but am not sure about that. I ahve also considered haveing the engine bored .030 over and bult with a 4" crank so it would be a 390 stroker but am concerned about the drivability of this motor and its out put. I am planning on making any engine that is put in it carberated because i dont have to worry about emmisions where i am at. Thanks for your help

[91DakotaFreak]

Sorry forgot to mention that this is planned for the future of this vehical just thought id get some ideas now thanks

[moparman318]

I vote for the stroker. I am thinking about stroking my 318 too. I don't think I would get the 4.00 crank though. Maybe a 3.71 or 3.79. Remember that the longer stroke you got the fewer rpms you can run. Without the 360 mains 3.79 is the longest I would ever run. I also think you might be in for a big surprise if you were to build a 440 and went to drop it in. You would need all sorts of custom fab work.

[91DakotaFreak]

I do know that there is a company out there that makes engine swap kits for gen1 and 2 Dakotas so i dont think it would be to hard to do other then replacing the trany and drive shaft. I have seen some pics of a 440 in a Gen1 dakota with the short front end and that was a tight fit but because mine is a gen2 I have the longer front end so i think it would fit without a problem but amd not sure I would have to do some more research when i find the link to the web site again i will post it.

[91DakotaFreak]

http://www.engine-swaps.com/

[dave571]

I'm not trying to be a pesimist, but 12's is REALLY fast for a street driven dakota.

The jump from your estimated 14-15, to actual 12's is a big one.

I'm not some racing guru, trying to rain on your parade, or anything. I am saying that perhaps you should run your truck at the track, and then see what is realistic.

There are some calculators(on the web) that calculate how much horse power you will need to move your weight of vehicle down the track in the time provided. If your vehicle weighs 3800 lbs, then you will need 435 wheel horsepower to get it into the 12's.)not factoring in wind resistance) That's over 540 at the crank
540 horsepower is not a realistic goal for a street driven 318, and is a bit of a stretch for the stoker combo's you've given. It's even a lot to expect from a 440.

When I did the math on my truck(78 adventurere shortbox), I need close to 400 horse power(crank) to get it in the low 14's. I'm going to attempt this with the 400 B engine I built for, and have ran in, the van. My current measured power, and some simple upgrades should get me power I need.

This truck weighs about 4200 lbs. I'm not sure what a dakota weighs, but it can't be too much less.

If you want a really mean dakota, I would do a realatively hot 440, or a 451 stroker combo. Build it for about 450 horsepower. You'll eat up most hot street cars, and get good times at the track.

[91DakotaFreak]

My Dakota weighs approx 3900Lbs. It would require about 400-500hp to get it into the 12's like you said. I think that If i were to go with the 360/380 I would be ablt to hit mid to high 12's. In the new mopar muscle they did a dyno on this motor and ended up getting another 29 ponies out of it. 409hp out of a 360 would be good for 13-14's I think that if the heads were ported and polished along with roller rockers and a valve job that it would be able to get 450hp+ but i am not real good with engine stuff so this is just a guess. The main problem i can see haveing is the tranny not holding up to that power and haveing a hard time with traction. But if an Elcameno can do it I think my truck can do it. I have looked at an A500 that can hold 500hp but would I be better to go with a 727? If the A500 would work it would be nice b/c of the overdrive for the street. But back to the power what engine combo or crate should i look at as the best possibility for this.
I fogot to mention that I would be putting this on the slimfast diet to lose the extra weight. I would like to get a aluminum radiator move the battery remove the bench seat and get two bucket seats with a 5 point harness.
Would lowering the it a few inches help reduce the drag?
Thanks

[dkn1997]

Since you mention crate motors, I will assume that you do not plan on building the motor yourself. If that is the case, you might do better at the local machine shop as the quality of many crate motors has been questioned on this board. I went the local route and now when I add parts to the motor and have questions or need parts, the guy is more than happy to help me because he helps himself. He knows that the next time I do a motor, I am going to him and not ordering it from a magazine. You will get a much better effort from the local guy than from someone hundreds or thousands of miles away who knows that they never have to look you in the eye. I admit, I have done my fair share of mail order, etc..but lately I have been going to the local speed shop more and more. It took a while, but I realized that once you get into this stuff, nothing is a bolt on and nothing fits as advertised-and the guys who answer the phones at the mail order houses are more telemarketer than motorhead. Good luck with your truck, sounds like it is going to scream

[340king]

The best way to be able, in my honest opinion, to reach the 12's and go down into them with a daily driven Dakota pickup is to buy the best flowing heads you can. The engine is an air pump and all things being equal, head flow makes/limits the HP. The only problem is that getting the most out of that flow will require a bunch of rpm or more cubes. High rpm = more money, shorter life and more maintenance. With the restrictions that street driving will force on you, you will not have the most driveable truck around town. You are asking us to make a few compromises.

I am basing this on the previous posts with reguard to the 540 hp being required. 400 hp engines are a dime a dozen and aren't too hard to build, but once you cross the 500 line the terrain narrows a bunch. I would look into some of the currently offered aluminum heads and see what they are flowing. In street trim I would anticipate needing around 300 cfm to get to the 540 hp you are looking for. For all of you that are thinking man 300 cfm is more like 640 hp, cut the compression to run pump gas, run a shorter cam to keep a little torque and what do you have left?

This is just one way to get where you want to go. There are others. Using a stroker in combination with great head flow would be an outstanding way to make the thing more streetable and reduce the rpm required to make the power you desire. I plugged the combo into Engine Pro and it came up with 555 hp at 6450 rpm. That is a 386 cid (4.030 X 3.79) stroker with 9.0:1 compression and a 240° @ .050" flat tappet cam. This is very doable.

I just reran the dyno pull with the 3.94 bore you mentioned in your previous post. I lost 2 hp and pushed the peak hp up to 6,600 rpm. Still, very doable

[91DakotaFreak]

http://www.hughesengines.com/www/hug...18crankkit.asp Here is thestroer kit that i have been looking at. This is also a little combo hat includes Aluminum heads etc. http://www.hughesengines.com/www/hug.../head_kits.asp That i think i would purchase as well. I would like to build the motor myself Ihave a fair knowledge of how to build one but have limited knowledge when it comes to the valve train. The stock bore on my 318 is 3.91 and the stroke is 3.31 The Cam is
Exhaust Closes(ATC) 16
Opens(BBC) 52
Valve Duraton 248

Intake Closes(ABC) 50
Opens(BTC) 10
Valve Duration 240
Valve Overlap 26

If you could run this on your desk top dyno and let me know what it runs for hp and tq that would be sweet.
Ifi went with the stroker kit and left it stock bore it would be approx 237ci and if i have it bored .030 it would be 390. If i were to do this combo what size/type of cam would i want? I plan on doing roller rockers and roller lifters with any combo

Thanks and sorry about the long posts I just want to understand all this stuff before i start purcasing parts and before i fully decide to do this or not Thanks

[91DakotaFreak]

sorry forgot to mention stock comp ratio is 9.0:1 also if you could with the stock bore and strock what would the prediction be for this cam http://www.hughesengines.com/www/hug...ydflatlist.asp Cam grind #HE1423AL
Thanks

[Devilbrad]

HHHMMMM, interesting. I know of several daily driven Dakotas running low 13's mid 12's, on the motor, no power adders, with small blocks. Most of these trucks are fuel injected, but I can see it easily being done with a carb. My 96 Dakota (Gen 2) regular cab weighs 3450 lbs. With 352hp at the flyeheel, it has gone 13.86 at 103. I say go stroker, build it for a 150 shot of nitrous (Cometics brand head gaskets, head and main studs and a dedicated fuel system for the nitrous), and run in the high 11's, and be a very streetable high 12 truck. Go to krcperformace.com for all you Dakota hot rod needs. Be sure and check their project trucks out, heavy heavy Gen 3 trucks running mid 12's with 360ci.

Brad

[340king]

The options are many my friend. As for the 318 with the 300 cfm heads, I was able to pull 477 hp @ 7050 rpm with a cam that had 248° @ .050" lift on the intake. At the 240° @ .050" lift, it made around 460 hp. Not bad for a 318, but still not where you want to be.

I posted the results for the 240° cam in my previous post. I pushed the cam up to 250° @ .050" on the intake in the stroker 318 and it came up to 570 hp. Going to this cam would make more power, but it would affect the streetability of the deal. I didn't have time to look at the other cam you suggested

[71dart666]

Well if you really wanna get wild, wait till somebody trashes their 03 hemi Ram and pull the drivetrain out of that, 350 hp stock should be good for 13s easily... Then just hang with it till all the aftermarket stuff starts showing up and im sure you could get 12s or even 11s.. I read about a supercharged hemi ram with 500 hp. If you didnt mind the forced induction and alot of work you could have yourself an 11 second hemi Dakota.

[91DakotaFreak]

I wish i could find one that would be bad but would a 8 1/4 rear hold the power from that

[Devilbrad]

Use an 8 3/4 B-body rear from say a 68 Satelite or a 9" Ford rear from a (specifically!!!!!) 71 Mustang. The Ford rear is actually an easier bolt in as all you have to change is the driveshaft length and rear u-joint, the Mopar rear you have to move the spring perches also.

Brad

[moparman318]

I am sure I posted this before but maybe it was on a different thread idont know. But what do you think about an early hemi. PAW sells them as crates and kits. I don't know of their quality but it is always something else to think about. I did a seach on tranny adapters and for about 9 grand you can get a blown hemi with the sb 727 adapters. [IMG]C:\My Documents\My Pictures\Blown hemi.jpg[/IMG]
early hemi

[Devilbrad]

Oh yum, give me a 33 or 41 Willys' with an early Donovan Hemi, mechanical Hilborn injection, and run it on alky on the street!!!!!!!!

Brad

P.S. Oh screw it, I really want it in a Model A. Or maybe an altered wheelbase 66 Valiant with a straight axle front end...............

[moparman318]

Ya mean something like this
[IMG]C:\My Documents\My Pictures\fan-tastic.jpg[/IMG]

or maybe this
[IMG]C:\My Documents\My Pictures\nicepipes.jpg[/IMG]

[Devilbrad]

Damn pics arent working for me!!!!!!!!! E-mail em to me at n2mopars@aol.com God I love 60's drag cars!!!!!!

Brad

[I970grancoupe]

assuming that money is not the big factor in this project, for a street driver/racer i would go 340. doesn't sound like you will be doin' lots of e.t. racin, so go with a manual tranny. reason being, build the 340, turbo style. this way you can get the best of both worlds. the stock 340 already has a lot of goodies. coupled with a 5 spd. this would be one wicked ride.

[71dart666]

Probably not id assume, but if you built your 318 to the point you were running 12s, id guess the 8 1/4 would have some problems then as well.

[rumblefish360]

OK, after reading some, I say we cut to the chase and cut out the bull.
Do a 440 at a min, and grab a DANA rear for out back. Use the 727 and for iceing, gear vendors overdrive unit for better cruise and top end.

Ahhhhhhhh, so nice to pipedream! But, thats what I'd do with it.
Think off it as a base set up so you can run faster after your bored with low 12's.

[moparman318]

I still stand by my last posts. Cut a whole in the hood get a dana 60 with some sure-grip or locker. Them buy the early hemi. That thing would not only get you into the 12's put some hot chicks pants too!!

[91DakotaFreak]

moparman318 can i have $18,000 so i can get a 426 crate and a blower? PLEASE!!!!

[moparman318]

Who said anything about a 426. I was talking about P.A.W selling a blown 392 hemi for 8500. I don't think thats unreasonable.

[91DakotaFreak]

Thats not that bad of a price do you have a web site or any info on these engines??

[moparman318]

www.earlyhemiengineparts.com I wouldn't worry about build quality too much considering it isn't a crate engine. Just a bunch of parts. I can't remember the site about the transmission adapterbut I will try and find it. I think you could use the stock transmission but I am not sure. It wouldn't hold up that well either.

[Devilbrad]

That website you sent him to, that company is also called Hot Heads, has all the tranny adaptors you could ask for. If your Dakota is an auto, it basically has an old A904 Torqueflite with overdrive, you can step up to a Ram's auto which is an A727 Torqueflite with overdrive. They call em A518's I believe, but same basic trans, or just get an older non lock up A727 trans, build it with a shift kit and better clutch/band packs and get a longer driveshaft (you will have to measure for length). The 392 Hemi with a 727 trans, and 8 3/4 rear end would kick ass in a Dakota, be way different, and run like a raped ape.

Brad

[moparman318]

If you do the hemi thing post a bunch of pics and maybe a link to a video of you smoking a rice burner