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  #1  
Old 01-28-2003, 11:39 PM
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gpeter7761 gpeter7761 is offline
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Question New air gap manifold

Just took my new Air Gap manifold out of the box and I noticed that the # 8 port is smaller than the one next to it. Is this normal?? It looks like the wall between 6 and 8 moved toward to the back of the manifold.
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  #2  
Old 01-29-2003, 12:17 AM
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I hate to ask this but, could you provided a brighter picyure.
It is hard for me to see.
Roger from Edelbrock might be able to answer this hands down.
It looks like there was a shift in the casting of the manifold.
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Old 01-29-2003, 12:36 AM
440newport 440newport is offline
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it is kinda hard to see, but from that pic it definitely doesn't look right...not only does it look smaller but the port wall isn't straight either it seems. I guess it was a casting problem on that particular one...i'd get on the horn with edelbrock and see what the deal is
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Old 01-29-2003, 12:36 AM
Kevin Garceau Kevin Garceau is offline
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Send it back, if thats the way it supposed to be, get a different brand or model. Ask them to pay your shipping also. I would say that is a defect. Just look how the long side bows in.
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Old 01-29-2003, 12:47 AM
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Cool

Does this picture looks better??
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  #6  
Old 01-29-2003, 12:49 AM
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Cool

trying again
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  #7  
Old 01-29-2003, 12:50 AM
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Default What pic?

LOL posted a second to late. I'll look now............


OK, I looked. Looks like a core shift/casting problem. Send it back if ya want. OR have the entire manifold port/gasket matched and polished.
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  #8  
Old 01-29-2003, 12:55 AM
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Cool

Thanks guys, I call edelbrock and see how far I can get with them
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  #9  
Old 01-29-2003, 06:33 AM
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fastmopars .inc fastmopars .inc is offline
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ohmigod.
i can't even believe that you people are still buying that edelbrock SH*T
i think we have pretty much summed up that ALL edelbrock products are garbage straight from the factory, and should be used as beginner's pieces only. An airgap is supposed to be a high end performance intake and the f'ing port is smaller on one cylinder than the others? wtf?
i mean, core shift? bullsh*t. they have been working on chevies since the 70's and their machines show they haven't changed since then.
ask roger, he even said in a previous post that they are experiencing "shrinkage" with all mopar intakes. doesn't this bother any of you?
i would almost buy an ac-delco part before i would think about purchasing anything from edelbrock.
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  #10  
Old 01-29-2003, 07:24 AM
DartGT66 DartGT66 is offline
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On my opinion that is no big deal. If you want, you can propably return it, but if you intend to port match the intake, that should be no big deal. Almost every aftermarket intake I have seen, despite of the brand, have simlar problems, although that one is pretty easy to spot. Sometimes, the port exits may be even pretty close to the heads port side, but they are way off sideways.

I have used many different products from several different manufacturers, and I do not find Edelbrocks any worse quality wise than its competitiors priced the same. On the contrary, theyy have some extremely good products that the competition can't touch like the RPM & Victor intakes, and excellent value cylinder heads.
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Old 01-29-2003, 09:37 AM
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Edelbrock manifolds like many others are just rough castings and require some work to get them to match you head ports.

That one looks real bad and I would return it for another.

Mine wasn't much better but after a couple of hours with a die grinder it matched up pretty close...I'm selling it and going to a M-1 type manifold to take some bottom end away and try and pick it up more on the top.

Anyone interested? your heads would have to be cut about .060 for it fit.
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  #12  
Old 01-29-2003, 11:05 AM
DartGT66 DartGT66 is offline
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Just use double intake gaskets?
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  #13  
Old 01-29-2003, 11:16 AM
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I'm not sure about that????I've never personally tried that so I can't recommend it..anyone want to try it It's in a box and ready to ship...make me an offer.
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Old 01-29-2003, 12:14 PM
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That's just the way ports look on a cast manifold....you can't get perfection with a sand casting.

I would say, port match the manifold to the intake gasket if you are worried about it, but I don't think it'll make much difference in your engine unless you are looking for every little horsepower, like a NASCAR engine.

The SB Mopar manifold for the Pro-Flo EFI that I tested at 431 horsepower @ 6500 rpm was with a sample casting and the ports didn't line up all that well. That is a shrink problem we run into on certain manifolds that don't shrink right after they are poured and those core boxes will be tuned in before the sample run is made and parts are sold.

For that, I doubt you can warranty it from us....where you bought it they could just trade you manifolds, but I doubt they would pay your shipping. That depends on their customer service.

If you are worried about performance with a manifold looking like that.....don't worry, it'll run just fine. But I would gasket match the manifold anyways.
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Old 01-29-2003, 05:07 PM
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fastmopars .inc, Just who's product should we be purchasing.
If Edelbrock makes garbage, who makes the manifolds to die for?

The RPM is given the hype, from what Ive read as a street strip dual plane intake. Like an entry level intake to the race track.
What other daul plane intake is better. Theres the stealth? Or is Weiand worse?
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Old 01-29-2003, 09:54 PM
71dart666 71dart666 is offline
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From what I have read and heard, those edelbrock air gaps are some of the best manifolds out there as far as a wide usable powerband. If its defective then obviously take it back and get another one.
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  #17  
Old 01-29-2003, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RogerH
That's just the way ports look on a cast manifold....you can't get perfection with a sand casting.
Roger,

Do you know anything about this company...
http://www.professional-products.com
Instead of sand molds they claim to use high pressure steel dies to produce their intake manifolds, and they claim it prevents core shifts, but it's more expensive for the tooling, they even have a copy of Edelbrocks Air-Gap. They will also be making SB Mopar intakes sometime this year. It looks like a good manifold but what I don't like is they are made in CHINA with USA made tooling. That would prevent me from buying one, has Edelbrock looked into using steel dies?
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  #18  
Old 01-30-2003, 02:05 AM
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Why doesnt anyone make a composite manifold like the "plastic" intake on Cadillacs? It seems you could make a very accurate intake that has superior thermal properties for a fraction of the cost of cast aluminum. With threaded inserts for carb mounts and stuff, Im sure it would hold up. They are using them on OEM applications so you know they will work for 100K or more. Just asking...
Oh yeah, another question. How the heck do you use steel molds in Investment Casting? Seems you could pour the molton aluminum in a steel casting for the outside shape, but not for an air gap type shape or anything that has more of a 180 degree dimension.

Here is a cleaned up shot of the original picture, You can really see the shift in this one
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  #19  
Old 01-30-2003, 04:28 AM
moparman318 moparman318 is offline
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What!!! Plastic intakes. I guess thats just good ole gm enginering. Plastic intakes, plastic truck beds, plastic body panels, whats next plastic engines? I sure wouldn't buy any plastic intake. Most standard intakes are stought enought to hold the engines weight. Plastic sure wouldn't be.
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  #20  
Old 01-30-2003, 04:40 AM
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Do you wonder how Professional-products casts the inner openings? Is there a aluminum sleeve cast in to take up the space? Just thinking out loud.
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  #21  
Old 01-30-2003, 06:07 AM
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The port must look pretty after they remove the inner passage molds =)
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  #22  
Old 01-30-2003, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DartByU

Do you know anything about this company...
http://www.professional-products.com
Instead of sand molds they claim to use high pressure steel dies to produce their intake manifolds, and they claim it prevents core shifts, but it's more expensive for the tooling, they even have a copy of Edelbrocks Air-Gap. They will also be making SB Mopar intakes sometime this year. It looks like a good manifold but what I don't like is they are made in CHINA with USA made tooling. That would prevent me from buying one, has Edelbrock looked into using steel dies?
Have you seen a Professional Product's manifold?????

What a pile!

We had people in and out of that booth the whole SEMA show! They just copy and produce. QUALITY??? You got to be joking! The manifolds they had on display were still dirty, the ports were modified in a way that looked to hurt airflow in ways we know that would, machined features were of very poor quality. Good luck trying to get one to not leak vacuum! Yeah, they are cheap....but of good quality....not from what I saw!

They copy stuff so much, that they copy features from Edelbrock manifolds that are obsolete, and haven't been removed from our patterns.

I don't just say this so you don't look into buying one of their manifolds....but just my observations from seeing their stuff first hand. The tapped holes were so bad in the manifolds I saw, on the carb pad, the drilled hole was so large that when they ran the tap, it only left a spiral scratch in the hole...no thread at all.

OK.....I'm going to stop my rant on UN-professional products. BTW...lots of big US companies are pushing to either get companies like theirs not be able to show product at SEMA shows....or put limits on them. We saw lots of Holley people go through their booth as well.....since there were lots of their copies on display....and they had prices on display as well. Their only selling point was they made manifolds that sales people could make money selling....didn't say anything on how well they ran on an engine!

Buy one of their manifolds....don't say I didn't warn ya! You might have to call China for tech support, but since they copy parts, they might refer you to us to help get it to run. LOL
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Old 01-30-2003, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by pishta
Here is a cleaned up shot of the original picture, You can really see the shift in this one
That does not look like CORE SHIFT. Looks more like extra metal. It is not a defect, the manifold will run just fine. A good thing to do is to port match the exits to the gasket anyways, to lay up a gasket, scribe the opening, get out a grinder and have fun.

Oh, and on plastic manifolds.....there is talk in the aftermarket about making that style in the future. The problem is when you get people who want to boost their engine....plastic blows up real easy! Lots of people with plastic intakes change out to aluminum ones just because of that!
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Old 01-30-2003, 02:51 PM
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So curiousity got the better of my common sence and i went to look at their web site.....fuel filters....I can hardly type I'm laughing so hard..this one really got me belly rolling...
Competition Fuel Filter

Our very popular Competition Fuel Filter has been a best seller for years. Featuring a 90 GPH fuel flow,
WOW a whole 90 GPH, that would almost handle a Carter mechanical!

... filtering down to 10 microns, and a rated
working pressure of 125 PSI, this is a great all around filter for many uses.
...but not your race car

.. It has 3/8-NPT inlet and outlet ports and a reversible bracket that allows inlet or outlet port positioning on either side. It features a highly polished chrome canister and mounting bracket.
Yup that polished tin bracket is essential in any type of racing

Includes element. Not suitable for use with alcohol or nitro and is not recommended for fuel injected applications.
They forgot to add "Or racing applications"
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Old 01-30-2003, 03:40 PM
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Good one cuda!

I am sure their R&D stands for Rob and Duplicate!

Racing parts = makes your completely stock vehicle look more like a car that can race.
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Old 01-30-2003, 08:38 PM
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Thanks for the input Roger, like I said in the post above I was not going to buy one of their manifolds, just wanted some input as I have not seen any first hand, I always stay away from China made stuff if at all possible, I wish everyone else would too, I'm a machinist and I've seen lots of crappy castings and machine work done in China.
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Old 01-31-2003, 01:32 AM
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Ok....think I calmed down from earlier....the Professional Products stuff just gives us people who do real engineering a sour taste in our mouths.

They are talking about pressure casting their manifolds, which helps the porosity problem you can have with sand casting. You still need to use a core which needs to be broken out, but just the two external parts of the mold, are steel. What I get a kick out of, if they think their castings are such high quality, why do they only show polished castings? The polishing hides most surface casting flaws. Although, at the SEMA show, I sure can't say they have any good castings.

That company was actually first a WD, just a warehouse distributor. All WD's complain about margin and say they can't make enough from selling product. So this one just copied the product from companies they bought from and made it in China and selling it here so they can make money on the product. Funny thing is, when they were only a WD, they came through Edelbrock on a tour and Vic let they videotape stuff, from what I heard.

I don't have any problem with competition, and nor does any other engineer I work with, as long as we do our own work...

I still haven't seen a real test of their copies to our stuff....I would be interested to see that.
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  #28  
Old 01-31-2003, 01:59 AM
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So how far does someone think I could drag a 5'6" 112 lb woman behind my truck before a local deputy gets wind? Not to far... just what I thought. My girlfriend just inadvertaently canceled Valentines surprise reservations I planned at one of the most prestigious restaraunts in New Jersey. "Maybe you shouldn't go sweetie, maybe I've got something special planned for valentines day" or maybe something special planned at the Pocanos directly after dinner for 4 days. Damn women.... NOOOO shes just got to go to new hamshire with a friend for no apparent reason. I'm ready to explode... sorry.. guess I'll be spending this wonderful holiday with my one true love. The only thing in my life that doesn't put me down or make me feel like sometimes it isn't enough. Thats right. My 408.

Anyway, let me settle down. Now why did I reply to this post again??.... Oh yea, that port size differential doesn't look like cast shift to me either. If it was cast shift, then both of the two sides would not be concave. One would be concave and one convex (the cast would have needed to shift either right or left, the cast could not have just made itself skinnier in the middle.) I'm going with extra material on this one. How far down into the port does the width differential remane the same? If its only casting flash, whack it off with a die grinder. If it only stems down into the port a half inch or so and then evens out like the rest of the ports, you dont have anything to worry about. Just gasket match it or port it and you'll be fine. Just make sure you go as far down as the "weird" width is. Once you clear that you'll be as good as new. Well, as good as ported....

Anyway, its with a tender heart that I'm going to retire early tonight. I'm goign to sleep on my couch downstairs right next to the front of my house. With any luck, a 1974 Duster will swerve mysteriously infront of my house and crash through the wall, ending my miserable life with a wonderful dose of 10w30 from the oil pan that will be ripped off with my exposed cheek bone... G'night...

-Deacon
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  #29  
Old 01-31-2003, 02:08 AM
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From what I saw of the photo, I wouldn't worry about it. Aluminum is sometimes tricky to cast, sometimes shifts where you don't want it to when cooling. Any intake needs to be trued with some die grind work before installation.

What you want to be concerned about is the center divider between the ports is in the correct location, everything else can be corrected. If you want the intake to be perfect, expect to pay double the price.

Sorry, that's just the way it is.
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Old 02-01-2003, 12:36 AM
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Cool

Here is a picture with the gasket lying on top.
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