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  #1  
Old 01-31-2003, 09:36 PM
cudajon cudajon is offline
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Question What to do?? ...Big Block EFI

Downloaded the installation manual from Holly on their 950, digested it. Been looking at the F.A.S.T. web site and reading all their material. Read all of Roger's post on the Edelbrock setup. I'm wanting a FI Port Injection system that will support at least 600hp. Holley claims their setup will support 950hp, F.A.S.T. will support 1000hp+. What will the Edelbrock support. Winters almost over and I haven't even started yet.
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  #2  
Old 02-01-2003, 12:11 AM
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ehostler ehostler is offline
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The Holley unit it will need the engine to be run on a dyno, in order to properly tune it. Even then, you need someone that knows a lot of EFI, to tune it correctly. There are just too many variable. Even then, you still have the major limitation of it being a TBI.

If you want a great TPI setup (for racing/high HP), you'll want to go with the Rance setup.
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Old 02-01-2003, 03:42 AM
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bfs426 bfs426 is offline
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Have you looked at Motec? I really like their set-up, but I havn't been able to really play around with one. If I had the money, I would go with them. You're going to need a dyno to properly tune most efi systems.
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Old 02-01-2003, 10:44 AM
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dkn1997 dkn1997 is offline
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since it sounds like you want hp, stay away from any throttle body system. I ran one for 3 years on my big block and it definately slowed me down- like from 13.0 to 13.4. although for driveability, you cannot beat it with a carb. it always started, throttle response was great. just not fast so I switched back to a carb. It all depends on how much you want to (or are able to) dial it in. out of the box, the edel will probably require the least tuning, not to mention being the cheapest because it already made for your motor. However, If your motor is going to grow beyond the 600 hp level you mentioned, probably time for a custom setup from rance or indy, etc... but be prepared to spend @5k for a turnkey system. If you want to put together something yourself, there is an article in an old moparmuscle mag where they built there own port efi. there is even a detailed drawing on how to modify a single plane intake for injector bosses. they put on a 4 door car with a 383 and it ran great. lots and lots of laptop tuning......
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Old 02-01-2003, 07:53 PM
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Hammer 74 Hammer 74 is offline
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The setup of an EFI system is not that difficult. If you can understand what the sensors are reading and what the adjustments are then you can figure it out. It took me a while but now I understand the variables.
As far as what dkn1997@aol.com says, I agree. The throttle body injection systems are out of date and limited in adjustability. A true EFI system is what modern vehicles use. I chose the SpeedPro/FAST puter because of the adjustability and versatility. Cost seems to be a big concern but as far as I see it the Rance and other premade setups are a waste of cash. The labor they charge is unbelieveable for drilling a few holes and a little welding. There is not much too it. Just my opinion.
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Old 02-13-2003, 09:07 PM
smokindatires smokindatires is offline
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Ehostler, you are mistaken about the Holley Commander 950. The Commander 950 is not just a TBI system, but also a multi-port bank fired fuel injection system. I recently purchased one of Holley's kits for a 493 that I'm building. It uses 8 seperate injectors and a throttle body mounted on a carb intake. The kit comes with computer, injector bungs, 1000 or 2000 cfm throttle body, blank fuel rails, fuel pressure regulator,detailed instructions,software, wiring harnesses and all the sensors needed. The system will support 950hp in stock form, but if you purchase a low impedence injector driver from Holley and upgrade the computer for their race software, it will support upwards of 1600hp. It is programmable through a laptop and they give you over 30 different engine configurations free so you have you a place to start tuning from. Its a bank fired system,not sequential. Also,its speed density instead of mass air, like most of the other aftermarket systems out there. Dollar for dollar, its one of the better systems I've seen as far as what you get for the amount of money spent.

Rob
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Old 02-13-2003, 09:21 PM
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Hammer 74 Hammer 74 is offline
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Hey smokindatires, what does the Holley system cost without the labor? Just curious.

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Old 02-13-2003, 09:28 PM
smokindatires smokindatires is offline
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I paid close to $1500 for my kit, with the 2000 cfm throttle body. I bought it from Summit when they had their 10% code a couple months back. The 1000 cfm kit is cheaper. Here is a couple of links for your viewing pleasure


http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/NewsInf...NR021202V.html

http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLin...C950/C950.html

Rob
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  #9  
Old 02-13-2003, 09:44 PM
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ehostler ehostler is offline
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Holley tried to push that setup on me. After reading up on everything, I decided against it. By the time you are done buying that setup, an intake, and then machine work on the intake, your right up there with the cost of the EB Pro-Flow. Then, to tune the 950 correctly, you need a dyno and need to have a lot more EFI knowledge than most people. Now you are well over the cost of the EB Pro-flow and you didn't even get a distributor that the computer can command.
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Old 02-13-2003, 10:03 PM
smokindatires smokindatires is offline
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The EB Pro-flow is pretty limited in capability and how much HP it can handle. Its for users that are looking more or less for a 'plug and play' type of system. As far as your statement concerning ignition systems go, a dedicated EFI distributor is not required since its not a sequential system. I'll be using a crank trigger,which is far more accurate than any distributor on the market. The signal goes from the crank trigger,to the computer,then from the computer to the coil,which in turns fires the distributor. Any distributor,including a factory distributor will work. All you simply do is phase the distributor and lock out the advance, pretty easy to do. A dyno is not 'needed' to tune this system or any other EFI system. It would be nice to have and I am sure would get the best results with a dyno,but the same could be said with a carb system as well. The costs of the EB Pro-flow kit from what I've seen is in the $2500 ballpark. The cost to get my intake machined is $300. As I posted earlier, the Holley kit set me back $1500, so with the machining I'm up to $1800. This leaves me $700 to get a top of the line MSD ignition system. So, the cost arguement just doesnt hold much water with me. As I stated, if someone is just looking for an EFI system to put on the car and cruise around with, the EB Pro-flow would work fine. But for any serious hot rodder, I really wouldnt suggest it.

Rob
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  #11  
Old 02-13-2003, 10:20 PM
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Hammer 74 Hammer 74 is offline
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From what I have read about the Holley as compared to the Edelbrock, I would choose the Holley. It would be more difficult to tune the Holley, but has much more adjustability. The Holley with the Race software and Wide Band option seem much more like my SpeedPro.
Have you figured out which injectors you will be using or which pump? I bought my injectors thru MP for real cheap. They were the Turbo II optional ones in the catalog. I think they were called +20%. The standard replacement TII are 30LB and the Super60' are 52LBS.
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  #12  
Old 02-13-2003, 10:25 PM
smokindatires smokindatires is offline
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Hammer, I'm using Accel 48lb/hr injectors. They are high impedence injectors that have been flow tested by Accel. As far as fuel pumps go, I've purchased a Magnaflow EFI pump which is good to 1250hp @ 40-45psi rail pressure, 55psi max rail pressure. Its a constant use pump,so street duty is fine. Also bought their EFI regulator too. I plan to send my Indy intake to Force Fuel Injection in Miami, FL to get machined. The engine is a 493 stroker with Indy 440-1 heads, Isky solid roller cam, 10.5 compression. Its being built to be able to run on 93 octane pump gas. The recipient is a 71 Duster.

Rob
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Old 02-13-2003, 10:27 PM
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I went Accel DFI GenVII with the dual sync distributor and wideband sensors by Rance. The dual sync distributor allows the use of sequential firing without the use of a crank trigger.
I hope to have it running at the end of the summer, I'll let you know what pros and cons I can see!
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  #14  
Old 02-13-2003, 10:33 PM
smokindatires smokindatires is offline
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Marc, the only system I know of that uses a crank trigger to fire sequentialy is the TEC-II. I just couldnt justify the advantages of sequential vs. bank fired, especially in a street/strip limited mileage car. Dont get me wrong, it is nice to have but its just something I can live without.

Rob
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  #15  
Old 02-13-2003, 11:21 PM
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The guys that I talk to that play with big HP turbo EFI motors say they might get a 5% increase with sequential firing. I stuck with bank to bank due to costs also.
smokindatires, your motor sound like it should run strong. Pump gas is another plus; street use.
I have a friend that machined his intake in his garage. A little tabletop drillpress and some vicegrips. He is a little nutty though but his Camaro goes 9's and see's lots of street miles. Turbo's can make a tame beast roar.
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