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  #1  
Old 02-10-2003, 02:37 PM
kenkarner kenkarner is offline
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Default 440 popping

My sons 440 runs great to 3000rpm then starts popping slightly through the exaust. Start with the points? Also are the electronic conversions into points type dist. any good? thanks Ken
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  #2  
Old 02-10-2003, 03:15 PM
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ajmopar ajmopar is offline
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Yeah, I would ditch the points and swap in an electronic distributor (I like to score them from junkyards and get the harness control unit and all). The wiring is pretty simple, and someone probably has a diagram around here somewhere.
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  #3  
Old 02-10-2003, 06:13 PM
6pakman 6pakman is offline
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ditch those points asap!! get the kit from mopar performance, or better yet get the msd 6 set up. you wont regret it.
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  #4  
Old 02-11-2003, 12:48 AM
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charger_dan charger_dan is offline
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Above 3,000 rpm, does the motor smooth back out? Still run rough?

Any recent changes to engine combo? (parts, timing/carb, etc.)

I tend to agree with 6pakman.

If you can pony up the dough, go with an MSD billet distributor and 6-AL box.
Better yet, get the new all-in-one MSD billet distributor: billet toughness, built-in ECU,
vacuum advance, easy install ... should be a great piece.
They work excellent, and virtually eliminates ignition problems from your
troubleshooting list.

Even if the problem stays after a swap to electronic ignition, you'll still be
ahead of the game in the long run. Those points will always be a weak link
in the performance chain.
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  #5  
Old 02-11-2003, 01:27 PM
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rolleyes

it could be a fuel flow or carburation problem. maybe your running too lean at higher RPMs (possible fuel pump failure, or low voltage if its electric). If you got an old fuel filter that could be it too.

If you dont got enough cash for a new distributor and stuff, you could always get another run-of-the-mill low PSI fuel pump, and try it out. that would prolly give you a better idea where the problem resides.

.sbuc72
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  #6  
Old 02-11-2003, 05:56 PM
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I had the same problem on my 68 440... a light miss that started at about 2,500 and got a little worse as the RPMs were increased (Just reving it up in the driveway... the miss was rarely noticed while driving). I could never put my finger on the exact problem. Upgraded to Electronic, carb/fuel pump, plug heat ranges, Jacobs wires $ coil... bla bla bla. The car ran so well otherwise. It was just really anoying!

Then, one day, I read a post by Don (AKA cuda66273) that mentioned distributor phasing where the little tab on the vac. advance canister is all that aligns the distributer cap to the rotor. Even though I never got a chance to attempt this fix (Engine is out at this point) it seemed like a logical next step.

I would verify your points are set properly, timing verified, and floats/filter and fuel system/pressure check out. I recommend converting to electronic, however, you may want to send the old distributor to Don for a phase check before changing anything.

HTH!
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  #7  
Old 02-11-2003, 11:27 PM
Marvin S Marvin S is offline
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Or you could just put some new points and condenser in it for a few bucks and see it it helps.Make sure your mech advance aint sticky.
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  #8  
Old 02-12-2003, 01:26 AM
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dave571 dave571 is offline
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Solve the problem before you do the swap. You may end up chasing your head up your a$$, otherwise. If it doesn't work after, you won't know if it's because you didn't do the work right, or if you just haven't found the cause yet.

If you conclude the points are the problem, then switch to electronic. Don't buy one of those kits you stick in the points distributor. The parts to do it properly can easily be had from a wrecker(as said earlier).

I'm pretty sure the wiring diagram, to install the mopar stuff, is posted on the boards here, somewhere.

Cross your fingers that you're not trying to solve what I did today. Multiple hair pulling.

Subject was a 69 superbee. Usually a bad running fault can be traced to one problem(on a well maintained car, with a lot of new parts in it). To make a long story short, I corrected a distributer, with some really weird timing in it today. Started it up, ran ok. Customer picked up the car. Called me an hour later from his house, to say it wouldn't start.

Brought it back on his trailer. After a lot of swearing, I found that the secondarys were dumping fuel into the engine, all the time. It was flooded so bad, I had to change the plugs to start it.

I'm not saying skip the electronic switch, I'm saying fix the fault first. Electronic is much better than point's, and worth the cost/work, of a changeover.
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  #9  
Old 02-12-2003, 09:34 PM
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I have the same problem with my 440. I have the MOPAR electronic ignition, have changed the cap, rotor, plugs,coil and have had two other mechanics check my timing and vacuum advance. I still have the same problem. Off the line I just don't get the acceleration but a sputtering engine. I have posted all over the place and no one has even tried to answer my problem, including tis site. I will read all of your responses and see if anyone says something I haven't tried. I like the fuel pump recommendation provided to you. If you figure it out let me know.
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  #10  
Old 02-13-2003, 01:17 PM
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Get a dial back timing light and go through the ditributor events.

Watch the timing at the RPM where the stumble starts.

What Carb's are both you guy's running?
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  #11  
Old 02-13-2003, 07:19 PM
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This is DPrevolos. My 440 has a Edelbrock 750. I just came from my garage. I received a new distributor cap today so I put it on. The car wouldn't start . So I had my son crank the car as I advance the distributor until it started. I turned the distributor all the way( counterclockwise) for the car to start. I didn't have time to keep working on it today but I could use some suggestions as to the timing,vacuum advance combination.
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  #12  
Old 02-14-2003, 12:32 AM
Mopar_Maniac Mopar_Maniac is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by dprevolos
I just came from my garage. I received a new distributor cap today so I put it on. The car wouldn't start . So I had my son crank the car as I advance the distributor until it started. I turned the distributor all the way( counterclockwise) for the car to start.
My first thought is that your NO start condition is caused by your plug wires are not installed properly.

The firing order is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2.

The correct direction is counter-clockwise.

Pull your number 1 spark plug...front plug on drivers side.
Remove dist. cap. Have your son bump the starter as you have your finger over the spark plug opening. You are feeling for compression to try and push your finger off the opening. When you feel it start to push air out have him stop.
Put a breaker bar with socket on the damper bolt and slowly turn the engine over by hand to line up the timing mark with the 0 mark.

Now look where the rotor tip is pointing...it should be pointing to the number 1 terminal on the dist. cap. Hook up the plug wires as shown above. Assuming no other issues...it should start.

After you get it running set your timing with a timing light. A good starting place is 10 degrees btdc.

Once you get it to this point let me know, and I or others can help you to get more power from it.

Almost forgot...make sure and turn your distributor back to the center area. The vaccum can should point towards the drivers side...almost parallel with the radiator.
If memory serves...my car isn't here to check, but I believe that number 1 should be one position counter-clockwise from the hold-down clamp on the passenger side of the dist.


Good luck,
Mopar_Maniac
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  #13  
Old 02-14-2003, 06:52 AM
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Thanks Mopar_Maniac for the info. I understand exactly what you described and will give it a try. Initially the car did not start because one wire was in an incorrect position on the cap. But the timing is definetly the problem. I will give you an update over the weekend.Thanks again.
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  #14  
Old 02-17-2003, 09:27 AM
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dprevolos dprevolos is offline
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Thumbs down 440 timing

I was not successful in getting the car running this weekend. At the last post I had advanced the distributor to get the car running. After I read your post (MOPAR_MANIAC), checked the #1 piston position and the rotor position, looked good . Checked wires and returned the distributor to center. I could not get the engine to start. After re-checking the wiring again and rotating the distributor, while my son is cranking the engine, I couldn't get the engine to start. I even tried the old distributor cap thinking maybe something was wrong with the new one. Remember, the car was running, just "popping" as I accelerated (driving not parked). The engine has Mopar electronic ignition, new rotor, plugs, ballast resistor, cap, wires and coil. The engine has a radical purple cam. Any suggestions?
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  #15  
Old 02-17-2003, 01:42 PM
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amxauto-x amxauto-x is offline
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Default engine not starting with new cap.

Have you checked to see if you have spark from the plug wires? From the coil? Regardless of the timeing being off or not , there should be spark. If there is spark, check the plugs and see if they are too wet, as in flooded. Then check the carb. If the accelerator pump doesn't work then the carb may be out of fuel, prime it then try again. Ok, not to be insulting,but, are the wires from the side of the dist. pluged in? Yes that happens.
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  #16  
Old 02-17-2003, 01:46 PM
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AMX Auto X...are you a AMX shop????
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  #17  
Old 02-17-2003, 01:47 PM
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Default new cap

What about the ballist resister? Check for an open circut. On my vehicals, the starting circut has gone out twice and the "run" circut once over the years.
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  #18  
Old 02-17-2003, 01:49 PM
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Nope, just have a '69 AMX autocross and street car.
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  #19  
Old 02-17-2003, 01:57 PM
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cuda66273 cuda66273 is offline
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69 AMX...one of my favorite cars!

I have two of those that I maintain from the Vancouver Wash area, one green and the other red, both 401's.

The green one is still a perfect resto and we have that Iron Headed beast running 12.0's the red one has the Al head treatment and with the stuff we did this year I expect it to run in the mid 11's.

..anyhow Welcome to Moparchat...good to have you on board

www.4secondsflat.com
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  #20  
Old 02-17-2003, 02:00 PM
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Thanks , just found this site. I also have a '98 SS/T. White. stock. Cuda type hood from AAR hood,Coco Beach, FL.
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  #21  
Old 02-17-2003, 02:29 PM
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Too many toys you need to send me that AMX
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  #22  
Old 02-17-2003, 02:49 PM
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rolleyes2

Never too many. Am looking for '68 Coronet RT or Super Bee.
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  #23  
Old 02-17-2003, 05:17 PM
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I know where there's 2 Bee's sitting in a field.....no motors and there in rough shape but the vin tags and fender tags are on them. One yellow the other blue I'll bet you could buy them for less than $500 each.
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  #24  
Old 02-17-2003, 05:24 PM
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Tell me. I have a 440 I need a car to put it in. You can e-mail me on my member info page.
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  #25  
Old 02-17-2003, 05:38 PM
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email me at
bigdaddy@4secondsflat.com and I'll save your address from that.

I'm not so smart on these computer thangys.

I'll have my Crew Chief go by there and be sure they're still sitting and check with the old guy about titles.
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  #26  
Old 02-17-2003, 06:02 PM
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Of course pictures are great.
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  #27  
Old 02-18-2003, 09:43 AM
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I see what I can do.....
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  #28  
Old 02-20-2003, 06:35 AM
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440 Running!

The 440 is running! Yesterday I took the time to review all of the "steps" I have taken to get the engine running. I went back to the beginning step and placed the #1 at TDC and then check rotor position, wiring, etc. I even checked the coil to make sure I had a spark. I discovered that the wires in my cap were not in the correct firing order . I started it up, set the timing and it is running. Thanks to all. Now that is running what is the "easy way" to set vacuum advance and at what setting?
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  #29  
Old 02-21-2003, 12:45 AM
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What do you mean by set vacuum advance?

Do you have an adjustable vacuum pod?

If not, just set the timing with the vacuum line off. Ensure when putting the vacuum on, that is on a PORTED, spot, not MANIFOLD vacuum.

The ported spot will have virtually no vacuum at idle(too little to feel with your thumb, or a normal vacuum gauge). If you can feel the vacuum through the hose, you're on the wrong port.
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