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View Poll Results: do headers suck?
yes, they suck 2 4.76%
No, headers rule! 8 19.05%
They suck to install, but are still cool. 32 76.19%
Voters: 42. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 02-15-2003, 11:05 PM
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dave571 dave571 is offline
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Default Headers, do they suck?

I got the 78 adventurer running today.

The 400 from the van(see profile) with a set of dynomax headers.

I was frustrated, as I had to cut the header plates to get them to fit on the heads.

Then heat up and dimple the # 8 tube, because it hit the block.

Then heat up and dimple the # 5 tube, as the end of the sparkplug practically touched it. There was no room for the plug wire. Even with my mod's the wire boot is going to melt.

The performance benefits are undenyable, but don't you find they suck, at the same time?!!
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  #2  
Old 02-16-2003, 12:25 AM
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dwc43 dwc43 is offline
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Look in summit racing book in the exhaust section. There are a set of pluge boots roughly 8 inches long from die or dei something like that. Mine set right on the header #5 and 7 on a small block dirt track car. Used them for years now and they still have not burned through. Also it will greatly keep the heat down if you use the header wrap stuff by them as well. You can actually touch the header for a split second and never get burned. You dont want to hold it though. Hope that helps. Dont sound like the headers you have were made for your app. Never had to cut any of mine up. Doubled and glued those metal header gaskets before that's bout it though.
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  #3  
Old 02-16-2003, 12:31 AM
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pishta pishta is offline
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yeah, they suck. Put 'em on a stock block and youll be sorry. Put em on a stout build up and youll find out what they are all about power wise. As for the mods, its all part of the game. You need to buy a designed header for the application. Just becasue It says "68-74 B Body 361-440" doesnt meen it is going to fit perfectly. Just the fact that is is used on the 2 different deck height blocks goes to show that clearances are going to be different down under since the 440 is a taller application.

As for the spark plug wire hitting, try a "peanut" plug and a 90 style wire. A peanut plug is a shorter plug dimensionally. Accel makes them for sure.

The Header generates more heat under the hood (more surface area) and is louder. It is made with thinner material and will rust over time. The flanges are weaker and will leak over time. Manifolds are thick, quiet and indestructable. they dont flow as well but were OEM on lots of pretty fast cars. If you are looking for the last bit of power, get the headers. As for truck duty, I would stick with manifolds, HP ones at that.
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  #4  
Old 02-16-2003, 12:33 AM
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rumblefish360 rumblefish360 is offline
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Well, My first set of headers I have ever put on a car were BlackJacks, They sucked on the install. Flange was spacing the ports to wide for the head.
Soultion, cut flange.
Then the tube hit the power steering box.
Soultion, dent tube.
3 days go by and the bottoms are flat.

Never had as big of a problem since. Best header I have used on the Cuda it a set of Hooker Super Comps.
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  #5  
Old 02-16-2003, 12:38 AM
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pishta pishta is offline
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I second that on the Super Comps. You get what you pay for. Mine were made for my app and fit like a glove, no dings, no rubs, 7 pieces and they had to be.
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  #6  
Old 02-16-2003, 04:24 AM
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dave571 dave571 is offline
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I can understand how multiple apps would cause problems.

If mine were on a RB, instead the #8 tube would have been ok.

That wouldn't explain why I had to cut the flange plates. I'm not aware of any alternative exhaust manifold bolt patterns, for popular big block heads. Also doesn't explain the plug touching.

The get what you pay for idea, covers those two.

The set only cost 225 canadian. That part, doesn't suck.
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  #7  
Old 02-16-2003, 01:57 PM
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olde_ram85 olde_ram85 is offline
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well when i got them i thought how hard could they be!!!!!!! well it turned out that they are a real bitch, but i still think they are worth it, my truck is sooooo loud now,,,,, i love it

BUT!! the dam things are leaking, and i'm in the process of an experimental way to plug my smog holes, this is y they are leaking, the header is not covering my smog holes located under each exhaust port bastrads,

so we took some 1/4in theardall, and some exhaust sealant along with a hammer, and beat bout and inch of theard all in each hole with sealant on them, then got an air grinder and finished it off, i dont know if this is gonna work or not cause i need a new set of gaskets, and exhaust manifold gaskets wont work, there too big! so it is parked for now, i ended up takin the whole header off..... which means starter too,

so yes they a f***'n bitch, but fun when installed and working
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  #8  
Old 02-17-2003, 12:10 AM
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JVMopar JVMopar is offline
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The headmans I put into my '73 Dodge D200 were actually a really nice fit. It's a little close to the frame on the drivers side and they come really close to the plugs but nothing I can't handle. I made the mistake of putting header wrap on my first pair. What a joke. I put the wrap on just before I put it in storage and 3 months after taking out of storage the headers were rotted through.

But they were a b(tch to get in there. You almost have to pull the motor to get the drivers side in, and you can almost put the passangers side in without even taking the motor mounts off. But I like them.
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  #9  
Old 02-17-2003, 05:22 PM
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Default TTI

If TTI made a set of headers to fit trucks, they would work.

If you have ever had to fight headers before (Sounds like everyone so far!) putting on a set of TTI's is a pleasent surprise.

I even took them back out to re-torque the head bolts! Cake!

No Leaks after a year. Like those thick-@ss flanges at the head AND at the collector.
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  #10  
Old 02-17-2003, 06:52 PM
flipper35 flipper35 is offline
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Default Mine are easy to work with.

Except if I need to remove them entirely, then I have to jack up the car and take them out from underneath.
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  #11  
Old 02-18-2003, 03:37 AM
Doug Wilson Doug Wilson is offline
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Here is what I did on my 440/Ramcharger 4X4 transplant: 1) Hedman Hedders that were(are) application specific, 2) Take the headers to a machine shop and have the flanges milled flat, 3) Cut the flanges between the outboard and inboard tubes on both sides, 4) Send them to Jet-Hot and have them coated - they do it inside and out. 5) Use thick, solid copper gaskets, 6) Raise the engine to do the install.

There you go.... not simple, not cheap, but once you are done, you'll never have to mess with them again - EVER.
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  #12  
Old 02-18-2003, 12:05 PM
littlecampbell littlecampbell is offline
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Doug....I presume this would work on SB too? I was wondering why the tubes were sticking out a 16th"...So milling the flanges flat theres no way the tube will separate with the flange? I guess not seeing you havent had any problems. Whats the reason for cutting the flange connection out? I assume room for a little movement in case everything dosent quite line up. In another ten or so years I'll get the hang of this Mopar thing. Shit, I'll be 62 in ten years
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  #13  
Old 02-18-2003, 04:12 PM
Doug Wilson Doug Wilson is offline
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I'm not talking about taking off much material - just a thousandth or two to make sure they are true - like trueing a head. Makes sure the gasket surfaces are flat. Cutting the flanges between the pipes allows them to correct for twisting torque - either from differential heating or small differences in engine twist from front to back - without cracking.

It would be MUCH nicer if you could just go down and buy them right to begin with - like TTI does - but you wind up with good, solid headers, still for less than TTIs would cost.
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  #14  
Old 02-19-2003, 12:31 AM
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Well, nowq that everything is working I will say this...the performance benefits are undenyable.

It rocks.

I seem to have worked out the fit problems. We'll see how long it all lasts now.
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  #15  
Old 02-20-2003, 03:19 PM
Doug Wilson Doug Wilson is offline
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Sooo.... what did you do?
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  #16  
Old 02-21-2003, 01:04 AM
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Well Doug, after I cut the flanges and drilled the holes a bit bigger, they fit on the head. Not badly either. I've had it out a few times, and the gaskets seem to be holding.

Lot's and lot's of jam. I find it a little too loud with the 2 1/2 dynomax mufflers(18" ovals). The rap a little like Glass packs, and I don't like it too much. I may go to an all welded shuttleworth type muffler. I like loud, but A deeper loud, not a sound like whapping the truck with bamboo.

But back to the fit... I had to squeeze the number 5 and #6 tubes down, so the plug boots wouldn't contact the tubes. Not the best solution, but it works for now. They were the cheapest headers I could find, so like said earlier,"You get what you pay for"

It's loud enough, that it scared my two year old son when I started it for him. Funny thing is, after I reved it up a few times, his look of fear turned to a big grin.

He's already figured out what's cool.
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  #17  
Old 02-21-2003, 01:49 AM
Doug Wilson Doug Wilson is offline
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Cool about your boy!! Is he left handed?

One thing I didn't mention is that you can also cut the outboard bolt holes so that they form slots, instead of holes. It just makes the install a little easier, but it sounds like you nailed it.
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  #18  
Old 02-21-2003, 02:34 AM
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dave571 dave571 is offline
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Sorry Doug, He's right handed.

Here's a pic of him(Steven 2) and his sister (Alexandra 4)

The picture sucks, but it's the best one I have of them on the pc
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  #19  
Old 02-21-2003, 02:39 AM
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Here's the engine too.

It's cool, but the kids are better
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  #20  
Old 02-21-2003, 02:44 AM
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Sorry, here's another try.

The blistered paint is barley visable on the #5 tube, next to the cruise servo.

I haven't gotten the cruise to work since the swap(like I care LOL)
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  #21  
Old 02-21-2003, 02:53 AM
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Here's a better one pf the kids.

Sorry if all the pics are pi$$ing you off ED.

I'm a proud dad(like most dads)
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  #22  
Old 02-21-2003, 03:08 AM
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Biggrin Header Mania

Here's my two cents.....and again, I have to emphasize, I have PLENTY of room to work with in my '75 D300....and it's so far off the ground that I'll never scrape a tube!

When pulling the engine out, it was no more of a problem than the occasional bloody knuckle (which we get anyways, right guys!) to remove the headers. I have a really nice set of Doug Thorly's on there, going back in 3" tubes to Flowmasters. So, in my opinion, HEADERS ARE GREAT!

The fella before me DID actually try to build this thing right, but overall, and considering the blown engine as I drove it home, the project (that he started) could have been a little cleaner. I'm just greatful to have a really great foundation to build on. The headers, an Edelbrock Performer manifold, etc. Yes, there is a lot to do with this engine...but I'm sure I'll be plenty satified when it's done. I can barely imagine how strong this stroker will be when we finish putting the extra TLC into it! Should I go buy a neck brace now....or after the whip-lash? Ha Ha!

Just a sub-note: I had installed a set of Headmans on my '79 F*rd Bronco. They went in pretty easily also. Then drove it down to the shop (without any mufflers!!!! WOW THAT WAS FUN!) and had a set of SuperSonics installed. That engine project was great too! It was a bored 400 sm. block with a cam and some extra goodies.....but that was then....and that was a F*rd! (No offense Blue Oval guys!)

Ron Wilson.
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  #23  
Old 02-21-2003, 01:29 PM
Doug Wilson Doug Wilson is offline
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hpproron - I've got a '73 PowerWagon 4X4 1 ton 7500 Camper Special with the body rotting off it - glass all good, 440 T/F that I'm trying to get rid of. If you need anything, let me know.

Dave571 - Great looking kids. Why don't you paint your engine YELLOW!!!
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  #24  
Old 02-21-2003, 07:03 PM
72Challenger 72Challenger is offline
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Hey hpproron,

Don't worry about insulting the Blue Oval guys - it happens here all the time! There are a few closet Ford lovers on the board, but unless you get really out of line they won't say anything.

I just checked out your ride on Don's web site - REALLY clean looking body. My '65 doesn't look nearly that good.

Anyway, nice to have yet another So.Cal. member on board. Welcome!
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  #25  
Old 02-22-2003, 01:13 AM
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Thanks guys!
I'll keep that offer in mind Doug if anything happens to go array in the process. By the way, does that PowerWagon have an 'auto-locker' hub, or do you have manuals on it? Mine are autos....(I'm not as fond of them as manuals!)

The front driveshaft is currently out of my truck anyways (and still sitting in the previous owners garage), but I'm not in any hurry to stick it back in until I have this thing broken in and ready for a little dirt.

Se la vie!

Ron
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  #26  
Old 02-22-2003, 02:41 AM
Doug Wilson Doug Wilson is offline
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Manual hubs, divorced X-Fer case.

I don't need no Steeenken manuals
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  #27  
Old 02-22-2003, 03:35 AM
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Why don't I paint it yellow?

Isn't it Yellow enough for you?
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  #28  
Old 02-25-2003, 02:46 PM
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rallye72 rallye72 is offline
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TO DAVE 571

I want to give you a big thumbs up on that van. Vans are cool. was it in one of the mopar mags a month or two back in the readers rides? I have a chevy van I call the loser cruiser.
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  #29  
Old 02-26-2003, 02:05 AM
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Yes. rallye72, it was. Thanks for the thumbs up.

It was on page 12 of Mopar Action. April 2003 issue.

I was proud, to say the least.

The loser cruiser. I like that. I have called mine a few things.

The Great Pumpkin, Rocket Van, shaggen wagen, ect
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