SB V-8 Hedders in A-Body

[frederick_76]

Looking in my Summit and Jeg's mag for hedders for my 69 Valiant (with 360) and they dont say if I have to do any cut and welding to make them fit. I dont want to order a set and find out that I have to cut my inner fenders! Anyone know what ones I can buy that I dont need to cut anything?? Im thinking Hookers or Hedman hedders. Thanks.

[Ausydad]

They don't say because it doesn't need to be done. On occassion, you'll have to ding and dent your headers for clearance on some items. Your biggest frustration with most of these will be splitting the tie rod to go inside the left header and the low ground clearance. Not many to get away from these. I would recommend STAYING AWAY from Hedman's as they did nothing but drag, bottom out, and burn up gaskets every week for me. The best you're gonna find will be TTI's setup that has ground clearance and easy fit without having to raise the motor for installation. They're also $550-$650. Doug Thorley also makes good headers as well as Shumacker? I believe. I currently run the ceramic Dynomax and still have clearance problems, etc. It mostly depends on what you can afford and what you can live with. The only ones that would require cutting and welding would be the fenderwell style, but those cut into our turning radius......
Good Luck!

[rumblefish360]

A set of super comp headers fit very nice in a '70 duster that I have seen. Is your engine bay close to that?

[Doug Wilson]

Shouldn't the engine bay be identical?

[tsteiner61]

I installed a full 3" TTI system in my 71 Dart Swinger recently.

Here are the up and downs of TTI from experience....

Ups:
Very nice looking. Ground clearance is excellent. Sound/perform GREAT (quieter/deeper than Flowmaster 2 chambers).

Downs:
Installation is a little rough. Requires removing part of the front suspension to get them in. Leave that front suspension out to get the starter in there, too (even the mini-starter from MPP hits the pitman arm on the way in). In fact, plan on getting a mini-starter if you don't want to have to heat and bend the header because the stock one just doesn't fit. Oil filter is captured by the headers once on, making it somewhat of a pain to change your oil as you have to reach in from the top to get at it. Other things they don't tell you are that if you want to run the full exhaust, you may have to cut the collector adapters to fit. And yes they are expensive. I paid $1300 front to back. If you have an auto trans (I don't, but I read the instructions) you will have to flip your kickdown linkage swivel upside down to make it fit.

I've heard that other brands are even more of a headache to get in and the quality is not as good. I would recommend the TTI setup, but of course they make it sound just a LITTLE easier to install than they really are. All in all a top quality product, but if you're just an average Joe like me, you may want to set aside a good amount of time to get them in there right.

I've heard good things about the Schumaker headers, but I have yet to hear of anyone who is actually running them, so...

[345Dart]

I put the complete TTi system on my 68 Dart 340 and encountered minimal problems considering the subject of Headers and exhaust systems.
1. Get a mini starter which will clear nicely and can be removed later by removing idler arm pivot bolt and dropping idler arm / Centre link. I have a high torque mini which is a little longer and it just fits. I do not think the old style large one will fit.
2 Extra long collector reducers are provided so you can cut to exact length as required for a real good fit. Hangers are superb.

Mine is an automatic and there was no requirement to reverse kickdown linkage.
Straight on Oil Filter is a little close to the # 8 tube, but will fit. I later added a 90* adapter to alleviate possible heat buildup - personal choice.

They are 1000 times better than the old headman I had.

As someone says here - you can never exceed the speed of your wallet!

[awalsum]

We recently put TTI's on a friends '70 Dart with a 360 and had minimal problems. Basically the only problems we had was getting everything tightened up because of minimal room. Maybe this was because we replaced the original starter (yes it does fit).

Superb set of headers!

[rumblefish360]

Doug;

Or anyone that can answer this. The A body has 2 different sized engine bays? Correct or not? This is why I asked what I wrote.

[frederick_76]

Sounds like ill try the TTI's. Not sure if my bay is the same size as a 70 Duster, but its got to be close. Schumaker headers, I might look in to them. Thanks people!!

[6 packin]

I have a set of Flow Tech ( Holley owned) headers for a A body small block there ceramicoat. You can use a factroy starter and can get it off with them in place but defiinatly a headache. Of coarse the drag link rolls through them. And they go in from under the car. They look nice and fit ok. I would sale them for a resonable price also.

[Doug Wilson]

3 different sizes - early - '64 to '66, '67 to '68, and 69 up. I'm nearly 100% positve that's correct, however, I was wrong twice before.

[72Challenger]

Wasn't one of those times when you thought you were wrong and it turned out you weren't?

[rumblefish360]

I think your right about that.


Thanks Doug.

[catman]

I HAVE 68 VALIANT WITH 340 IN IT. HEADMAN HUSTLER FIT LIKE A GLOVE. NUMBER 8 CYL & 7 CYL HAVE A SLIP JOINT AND GO THRU THE FENDER WELL OTHER THEN THAT NO NEED TO TAKE STEERING APART. STARTER NO PROBLEM AND NO GROUND CLEARANCE .MY 2 CENTS

[Doug Wilson]

You guys are incredibly perceptive. :

[littlecampbell]

"67-76 same. Location of certain components may not be the same and sometime in the 70s they added firewall to fender braces".....This from bigblockdart.com.....Of course this could be wrong and Doug is right.....

[frederick_76]

Thanks all, sound like whatever way i go its not going to be an easy thing, but will see.

[Doug Wilson]

LC - I just found out that my eldest Son is going to marry a woman in BC... so I may meet you sooner, rather than later. Don't know when or where 'til Monday PM.

[littlecampbell]

I might as well stay with this thread....I've got the Hedman blues. 69 340 Dart, power steering, power brakes with a stick. I know, go manual. I will now that I had to take the master cylinder and booster off to get the stock manifold off. I have followed the directions to a T. Starter out, clutch linkage out, center link out, jacked up three feet, motor raised as high as it will go. No way this thing is going in. Maybe if I take the steering column out. As of right now no way am I taking the column out. Im starting to think about what if I have to take this pig out sometime? Doesnt say anything in directions about removing steering column. I dont see how any header will fit in there. And I havent even had the joy of bottoming out on something yet. This also has an earlier K member if that means anything. If nothing changes tommorrow the Heds are going back and I'll get shorties....Any advice?
PS...I havent had a drink in 15 weeks and 5 days, right around now about 7 or 8 triple wallbangers would go down nicely but then tommorrow I'd have a double Hedman headache.

[littlecampbell]

You must be mistaken Doug, theres no women in BC, only Surrey girls ....Smuggle me up a set of headers that fit will ya?....You shouldnt have a problem getting over the border, just wear a turban .....Where they getting hitched?

[Tarrbabe]

I'm not an expert, but I have read that the only difference in A body engine bays was pre-67 and 67 and after. That is good news for us and you would think the header companys would have caught on years ago. Many years ago.

[Doug Wilson]

LC - don't know where or when, yet.

What I would do is call one of the mail order joints and ask them for the phone number of Hedman. Call Hedman and they'll give you an application specialist who will tell you what you need to do to make them install correctly.

I'll go do a net search now.

[Doug Wilson]

OK - their phone number for street headers is 562-921-0404, and their web site is www.techsupport@hedman.com

Give them a try.

[littlecampbell]

Good idea, thanks Doug. Guess I was wrong, there must be at least one woman up here that isnt from Surrey....Your sons bride to be.

[Mr.Mopar]

littlecampbell, I too had a hell of a time getting my hedders in my 72 Swinger. I had to lift the motor, jack the car up, remove the pitman arm, center link, and starter and also take out the 3 bolts that hold the power steering box in place. Dimpled the hedders where they hit the power steering box, torsion bars and idler arm. They were MP hedders which I believe are Hedmans. The regular size starter fits in good ( I am thinking of changing over to the mini when it crashes), and the 90* oil filter adapter is a plus. The #7 hedder bolts are a pain in the ass to get tight but it can be done. The passenger side almost fell in place, thats why I did the drivers side first so I wouldn't finish in a bad mood! It can be done without taking out the steering column, its just difficult. Flowtech, Holley, Hedman, Dynomax are all about the same fit. If you have lots of CDN cash to pay the US dollar difference, then got with the TTI, but if you're on a budget like me, grunt and groan and swear and get them Hedmans in there....they will go in. Where would you find shorties for your Dart? I couldn't find anyone who makes them for me. What about those high priced Spitfire hedders? Nobody mentioned them. Oh, and congrats on the no-drinkin' thing.

[littlecampbell]

Mr.Mopar....I will look into unbolting the power steering box. I thought I would have to take out the column and re-install after the header was in.....That sounds like a nightmare!...Which way did yours go in?...Have to unhook the power steering hoses?.....
Hedman makes a shorty for A bodies...says you have to use a mini-starter though.....didnt say which one. Part #HED-78500, $209 US I believe....Yeah I started on the left side first too! TTIs are $900 canuck bucks so forget that....Spitfires are only $175 US...Takes awhile to get them though...In hindsight thats what I should have done.....If I ever get this side in I'll get a new(rebuilt) stock starter if it will fit. $90 canadian with the oldcore. One for a 98 Dakota was $200 plus $60 for not having a core!...Not interested in putting a junk yard find behind that header not knowing how long it will last and also what an easy swap it would be ....Thanks for the info.

[Mr.Mopar]

Don't have to take the PS hoses off, just all 3 bolts on the box and you get lots of wiggle room. I believe the drivers side went in from the underside. It took a lot of manouvering and you will definately have to re-paint them when you are done. VHT makes a real good black paint that stays on pretty well. You will have to lift the motor off the mounts as high as you can and I think I still had to pry them in there. I use the factory size starter in mine and I have no problems there. I paid $90.00 for a rebuilt one 3 yrs. ago. You are almost forced to use the less expensive brands but at .64 CDN on the US dollar, what can you do? Just for kicks check out the MP hedders at the local dealer and see what they can do for you. Make sure you warm up the car real good after you get the hedders installed, this will help when you go to dimple them in for the clearances you'll need for wherever they hit, and they will hit in many places! Also turn the wheel in each direction and check your clearances in reverse as well as forward as this also makes a difference. Kinda wondering why we do theses mods eh'? All for the sake of performance and the hedders certainly do help that. Good luck!!

[littlecampbell]

Well I had a friend come over to check out the header problem. Was in the business for twelve years and remembered installing hedmans on a 340 Dart. He said it can be done by unbolting the steering box but what about clearance problems after its back together.....So after a gab session about the pros and cons, the cons won out. Will be returning these pipes tommorrow and will give the hedman shorties a try.....After the hassle trying to get these in and then the fun later trying to avoid the speed bumps trying to get at the 94 octane gas pumps, forget it. The shorties are 18 guage, 1 5/8 primaries and a 2 1/2" collector. Have to use a mini starter. Oh yeah, shorties are $100 more(US). Will let you know how they fit. Thanks for the replies.

[Mr.Mopar]

I am very interested in how this turns out. E-mail me at peterfam@telusplanet.net when you get things sorted out. I may do the same thing.

[razorbac]

littlecamp
Don't know if there still around. I put a set of appliance headers on a 69 340 swinger with manual steering. The first 2 speed bumps were kinda hard on them. It was 25 years ago and my memory is kinda fuzzy; must of gone on easy as I was a 16 year old kid in the front yard with a pair of vice grips and a hammer.