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#1
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Carb/Intake combo
I'm having a 360 built for my Duster, looking for "stump-pulling torque" rather than high HP. My builder recomends a Weiand Stealth intake with a Holley Avenger or a Road Demon carb (both square bores, I presume), however, I found a Mopar intake off a "73 340 for only $35. I'm told by the seller on ebay, that you can buy an adapter for spread-bore to square-bore for $10. Questions are: 1/ How much difference in performance is there? 2/ Would it be better to use the adapter or go with a spread-bore carb? or 3/ Should I just use the Mopar intake on my 318 and spend the money on the 360? Both will be steet engines. The 318 I'm going to build myself ( first atempt )
Thanks. |
#2
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I like those numbers
If the 340 int has not been cut or have any broken bolts or stripped out threads, I 'd say put the used 340 int on the the 360, and look for a ThermoQuad for it. Make sure you can get a choke thermostat for it, first.
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#3
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What are the specs on the engine and car?
Complete as much of this form as possible the more info I have the better I can dial your carb and/or distributor. Car make Car year Engine size Tranny type Rear end ratio Tire diameter Manifold type Head type and valve size Cam duration at 50 Cam lift Cam brand Compression ratio Fuel Octane level Best ET Best ΒΌ MPH RPM at stripe on above run Convertor stall Convertor type Shift RP |
#4
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specs
Cuda66273, thanks for the help, if I can give you enough info. Some of this is proposed, some unknown, but here goes.
Duster...gold duster found in junkyard 1973 Engine: orig.318..building 360 Tranny: auto, don't know which, will prob. be727sumday REar end: haven't checked yet tire diam: about 26" Manifold type: Dual plane, sugested Weiand Stealth Heads: 340 "j" heads stock valves Cam duration: Suggested, 256*to 264* Cam lift: Suggested, .425/.425 Cam brand: Comp Compression Ratio: 10.5:1(SRP pistons bought) Fuel octane: 93 Stock converter and no Drag specs Suggested DUI ignition Thanks |
#5
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Save some money up and put in a good convertor. In my honest opinion more can be gained or hurt from torque convertor selection than just about anything else. When I was in high school built my first real car, when putting in the motor I realized I had picked up a convertor for an older style 727 and the shaft sizes didnt line up. Put in a reworked stock convertor in and went 11.7s the first weekend with it. Borrowed a good convertor and went 11.2s the next weekend.
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#6
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First off....forget that adaptor and get the right manifold or you'll just be trying to get your money back with yet another ebay auction.
Don't start with " I got one on my car and works fine"...wrong....they're deadly, they puddle fuel and eat the rings out of your motor, but if you want to run a $35.00 manifold with a $10.00 spacer go for it. Are you sure about the compression ratio? 10.5:1 piston but where is the deck and the size of the combustion chamber...what's the real static compression? If it's 10.5:1 and you plan on running 93 octane in that iron headed pump your gonna have to rethink this project..... That cam your loking at is a 221 at 50 and the with valve lift it's pretty mild, good drivability but to me it just doesn't seem to match the assumed compression ratio. If you go with that set up find a Peformer manifold and you'll need a 650 Speed Demon or for better drivability a Road Demon will handle that small cam. If the car weighs over 3400#'s, less than a 2500 stall convertor and less than a 355 gear set you need to stick with a Vacuum secondary set-up. Now put a 3.91 gear in it, a good 3000 Dynamic convertor and you can go with a mechanical secondary set-up. You have to many undecided options at this time and everything is just a guess until things more in stone. I still question the compression ratio???? |
#7
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Cuda is right about this. Theres more to this than meets the eye.
The cam listed is small. The stock 4bbl will work with that cam. But that compresion is sky high. Waaaay to high. If those cam specs are at .050 what I just wrote should now be reversed. The stealth would work and a larger carb than the small road demon. Another 100 (or so ) cfm's would do. What is the actual valve size. Saying stock dosn't cut it. Ethier 1.88 or 2.02. Theres nothing wrong with the stock intake. They just fall short of most performance levels that people seek. |
#8
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Obviously I don't know enough about all this to intelligently discuss it, but anyway, I think those cam specs are not @.050 and the valve size is 1.88.
On the "Dyno 2000" program this gives near 400ft-lbs of torque. You have given me an answer to the main question, "Forget the adapter". I also bid on a Thermo-quad , which I will use with the stock manifold on the 318, and go for new technology and new parts on the 360. I'm spending enough on the 360 that I shouldn't "cheap-out" on the carb/manifold combo. Thanks Guys. |
#9
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"Obviously I don't know enough about all this to intelligently discuss it"
Yes you do, you want to learn and that's the most intelligent thing you can do and that's why your here...there's no such thing as a stupid question..now you've got rumble and I over working our pea brains on this you can't quit now we still have the little letters on our keyboards that need wearing off.... Just keep in mind that a 318 is a real small motor in the Mopar world and most all cams, carbs and manifolds are designed for 340's and up. Us 318 Guy's have to be carefull in parts selection or we'll overstuff them and then they just want to lay down and take a nap. If you ever want to ask a question off the board my email is in my sig. line..... Don |
#10
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I say exactly the same thing he said.
Just ask. The stupid question is the one not asked. Don has an edge over me on 318's in the go very fast cat. We have slighty different views on how to make quicker, but like religion, we both worship the go fast god, just in a slighty different way. If I were to do a 318 for the street, it would be a Performer intake, (360 intake, OK, not great though) small carb of no larger than 600 cfm's, (T-Q is a different story) Factory trick aircleaner, dual exhaust, header or not, @ 2 1/4 pipe w an "H" to connect. Heads; 360 valves with 3 angle (Min.) job. No porting. Newest head avial. for build up. (302 head is good) Min. cam examples would be ; MoPar 260- 268 cam (P#759) Comps Dual energy 265DEH @265-276 or Extreme XE262H @ 262-270 Tranny shift kit and a max of 3.55 sure gripped rear w/26' tires. Everything easy to get off the shelf ready and waiting. This should be an easy 300 hp and 350 lbs of torque. Just an example mind you. Don likes to customize alittle bit more than just the usual line of "Generic" parts. |
#11
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Thanks
Thanks Guys, I really apreciate the help.
I'll let you know how things work out. My funds are limited, temporarilly, 'till I win the Ga. lottery. Thanks again, I took notes. |
#12
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That's because I'm just not a Generic type Guy....LOL..If I was I'd be driving a 84 Slowmero with an awesome "built" 350/350 with a 350 gear with slutted wheels, beauty rings and center caps..did I spell that right?...
Just remember the basics....air in-air out and how much you compress it...after that it's tuning and drive line.... |
#13
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rochester
i know mother mopar put some rochester Q-jets on some cars, i think in the early 80s. anyone ever use these mixers for their build up?
i ran one on a 273 a few years back (i was in college and it was what my chevy friend had in his junk pile) and it seemed to work out pretty well. anyway, there are tons of them out there and parts are readily available. thoughts? sean |
#14
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manifold
I can personally vouch for the Stealth,as I have used two of them. One to replace the stock intake on a 73 340, and one on my 360. The difference was very noticeable compared to the stock intake.
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#15
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Hey Jimbo..hows things in my home town?
You gonna come out to Mission this year and do some racin with us all? |
#16
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How about 320lb/ft @ 3000 & 265hp @ 5200 at the wheels.
I just built a 360; 10:1 & 175lb of comp. Perf. RPM 670 Street Avenger 272 Crane Powermax cam 360 heads,2.02/1.6 w/bowl porting 3.23 gear Looking at your combo I'd suggest a little less comp. & a little bigger cam. |
#17
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Hey Cuda how are you doing? Life is much the same, and gas prices just went up again! 3.5 cent added tax. I'd like to get out to Mission this year, just refreshing my Challengers front suspension. When are you going to be there?
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#18
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Ted,
I noticed that you were thinking about putting on a DUI ignition system. The opinion from several members on this board is very low for that system. Do a search and you will see. Beside's a GM style HEI ignition didtributor just looks tacky on a mopar and you will get comments at the strip/show. For your combo you would be fine with the Mopar Electronic Ignition. The orange box with a hotter coil and decent plug wires will work great for your aplication. A MSD or HI-6 is an even better application, but maybe overkill if your on a budget. Personally I am running a Jacob's coil and wires with my orange box and I like the results. |
#19
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The last orange box we tested:
failed at 5200 RPM, it dropped from 32KV output to 18kv and as we approached 5500 it pulled 4* of timing out of the motor. Everyone we test fails right at about 5200 and starts to pull timing out at 5500, which is fine if there being used for there intended purpose....500-5000 RPM anything more and you need to upgrade the box. Coils are set up in RPM bands... These numbers are examples as I don't have the spread sheet handy but you can get the idea Stock Coil 500-4800 SS Coil 900 -6000 Super coil 1200-6500 Blaster 2 -1500-7000 The Multi-spark boxes provide the multiple spark to the cylinder to crutch the poor output from the coil at low RPM and prevent misfiring on big cam engines as they make generally low combustion chamber pressure at low RPM or off the cam range....It's all a matter of balance...selecting the right coil, box, initial timing and advance curve events to match the engine spec's, weight of the car, gear ratio etc. will get you maximum performance. Too much coil is like running too much octane or too much cam...doesn't do you any good and probably compromises efficiency or driveability somewhere in the power band. |
#20
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cuda, thanks for that info on the orange box. How do you know or predict what RPM your engine is going to turn b/4 you build it? Is it more dependent on one item, or a combination of things?
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#21
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Simple....it's a calculation of cam, compression, cylinder head design, intake, carb, exhaust, weight, convertor stall, tire size, gear ratio and most important ...the speed of your wallet...nothing to it.
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#22
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Sounds simple to me just send everything to cuda and let him worry about it. For the right price.
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#23
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That would be nice...right now I'm jammed solid on head and engine work for at least 30 days.
Chassis and car building I'm out 3 months. I have a full car to build, another 66 Cuda, it's on jack stands in the garage right now with the motor hanging on 2 bolts..anyone got some time to drop over and help me squeak it out of the hole? |
#24
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Sure, I'll be right there, it'll take me a couple of days to get there though. It's gotta be warmer there than here. (-25 degrees celcius last night).
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#25
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I had to mow my lawn yesterday..if that's any indication
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#26
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My lawn has 3 snow men on it, if that's any indication.
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#27
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I fully understand having lived in Vagina Sascratchewan for 2 years and Winterpig Manitoba for almost 3.....no more snow Chevelles for me....LOL
Did you know that some people are actually growing Banana trees here in Portland...I guess they can handle the light frost OK. I grew them in Houston and actually got small fruit after a few years...so are you on your way? |
#28
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I asked my boss, she said no. Speaking of vaginas, she weilds the power around here. Good thing too, I would probably be living in a garage with a fridge, a microwave and a cot surrounded by old mopars, welding equipment, mills, drills, lathes... wait, that doesn't sound so bad.
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#29
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If it wasn't for her control of the furnace that would be a good plan....LOL
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#30
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That's why I'm single. I can do what I want! After I retire I can come down and help. In 2 years!
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