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  #1  
Old 02-28-2003, 10:27 AM
FASTDARTCHESTER FASTDARTCHESTER is offline
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Default 406 Hp 318

I haven't seen it yet, but my brother told me this month's Hot Rod has a writeup on a 318 (unstroked I think) that is making 406 hp with ported '302 heads.

Anyone see it yet?
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  #2  
Old 02-28-2003, 10:49 AM
hemivaliant hemivaliant is offline
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Cool

Yes


HV
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  #3  
Old 02-28-2003, 10:56 AM
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no
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  #4  
Old 02-28-2003, 10:58 AM
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no I haven't. I'll have to go find it.
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  #5  
Old 02-28-2003, 04:36 PM
JoeMack2 JoeMack2 is offline
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Biggrin

Just came in today. Have not read it yet.
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  #6  
Old 02-28-2003, 05:15 PM
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Default YES!

I think Hot Rod is running out of bow-tie ideas. Nice to see them becomming a little more open minded.

The bottom end of that 318 has over 200K miles as well!
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  #7  
Old 02-28-2003, 05:17 PM
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That's why I quit getting Hot Rod and Popular Hotrodding years ago. Too many Chevys. Not that many Fords either, just Chevy, Chevy, Chevy!!!
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  #8  
Old 02-28-2003, 07:02 PM
72Challenger 72Challenger is offline
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Well, Hot Rod is printing a lot more Mopar stuff. The 318 article was written by Steve Dulcich. I wonder if I could get him to port my next set of heads? The heads were the definite "secret ingredient" to this recipe. 52cc chambered 302 castings with 2.02/1.60 valves, ported to flow over 200 CFM.

They also had a feature on a Road Runner, and on the Hemi exhibit at the Chrysler museum. Hmmm, 3 Mopar articles in one issue. I wonder if that's a record for them?
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  #9  
Old 02-28-2003, 07:06 PM
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Ted Bromback Ted Bromback is offline
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Thumbs up Yeah! mine came today

That 'teen, as they call it, has stock pistons too, and I don,t think they bored it , Did they? Trying to keep the price down, I like that!! However, they did a lot of tuning and aftermarket intake and carb and a lot, a lot, of DYNO time to get that last 50HP. It's still cool though, cause I'd be happy with 350hp out of mine.
Did HOT ROD get a new editor last year? or the year b/4? I've noticed a lot more MOPAR coverage in the last 2 years. Maybe because Ma got back into NASCAR.
What do 'ya think?
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  #10  
Old 02-28-2003, 07:25 PM
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I think they did get a new guy at the helm. I have noticed a few more MoPar write ups, but not enuff to keep me, or bring me back.
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  #11  
Old 02-28-2003, 08:16 PM
skankweirdall skankweirdall is offline
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Is Frieburger the editor, or editor in chief now or something? He's a Mopar guy as is Steve Magnate and Dulcich. Dulcich by the way gets my vote for Fox Mulder look- a- like. Magnate got his start at Chrysler Power magazine. Is that still around? I haven't seen it in years. I'm also unsure if I spelled any of those names right, it's been awhile since I picked up a Hot Rod or Car Craft. I liked Car Craft when Freiburger was editor of it.

Back on topic though that is killer power from a 200K short block with stock type iron heads. I'll have to pick that up. Dulcich is a freelancer and one VERY sharp dude.
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  #12  
Old 02-28-2003, 11:03 PM
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It's a very good article. I've seen lots of 318's with way more parts in 'em and a lot less horsepower. They also explain some of the built in performance characteristics of the small block mopars that the bow ties don't have. This story is a keeper for sure..............djs
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  #13  
Old 03-02-2003, 08:21 AM
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Sounds like he missed a couple of things....a little short on power I would say...

Should have called this guy....

http://www.4secondsflat.com/bd7.jpg

Hey Little campbell...you know this Guy???
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  #14  
Old 03-02-2003, 09:23 AM
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anyone got a scan of the article? or am i gonna have to go out to my grocery store and buy a copy?

.sbuc72
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  #15  
Old 03-02-2003, 11:53 AM
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Default sbuc72

Send me your email address, and I'll scan it for U
tbromback@earthlink.net
However, there are about 3 or 4 good mopar things in it, that you might want.
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  #16  
Old 03-05-2003, 02:48 PM
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Default Links to scanned article

Here ya go guys, Thank Ted for the scans.

http://whacked.technine.net/junk/mop...00hp/318p1.jpg

http://whacked.technine.net/junk/mop...00hp/318p2.jpg

http://whacked.technine.net/junk/mop...00hp/318p3.jpg

http://whacked.technine.net/junk/mop...00hp/318p4.jpg

http://whacked.technine.net/junk/mop...00hp/318p5.jpg
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  #17  
Old 03-05-2003, 05:13 PM
Swinger321 Swinger321 is offline
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:shock: The 302' Heads

OMG!! have you all seen how much material is removed from the intake port floor? Opening up the 318 intake port to 360 gasket size is crazy how much material is there.

After studying this article for 4 days now., I have come to believe that its not that easy to build a 400+ hp 318 for $1500.

I didn't see in the price breakdown how much it cost to cut reliefs in the pistons. Can someone do that on their own properly?

Also, the porting HR did is crazy. 60% over stock flow?
I would think the 2.02 valve had alot to do with the increased flow because the stock exhaust valve is already a 1.50"

Also what is that mumbo-jumbo about the pushrod hole?

AND how far can you really go with milling before you have to use custom pushrods?

I had a 302' headed 318 and it ran good, but I would keep bending the stock pushrods and I only milled the heads .010

Maybe it was that radical .513/.520 lift cam I had in it???? My pistons weren't relieved like the ones in the article.
Hell I am a rookie, learning the hard way.

How about somemore of your opinions on this build-up???

Thanks
Swinger
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  #18  
Old 03-05-2003, 05:22 PM
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Default Pushrod junk

well, they did so much porting to the 302's that they were worried that they may have cut into the pushrod channel (which would be VERY bad). but im sure they were also worried about it being very thin, and possibly rupturing under high oil pressures.

and yeah, it may have only cost HR 1500$ to do it, but any one of us, would need a serious workshop to do all the work, and the tools alone would cost more then 1500$

But yeah, it is nice to know that with some serious porting, a nice intake, carb + Cam combo, you can turn a 318 into a real mopar motor.

.sbuc72
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  #19  
Old 03-05-2003, 05:37 PM
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Cool A skilled hand and cheap die grinder...

Would be enough to duplicate those heads and of course time. You would also be smart to purchase that E tool they used but that thing is cheap too. And as far as converting to 2.02 and 1.60 valves that should be no problem for even the high school kids at the local small town Carquest machine shop or etc. But then again you could allways go the easy route and buy eddy heads or find someone with a set of "good" w2 heads. I am impressed that HR did this without using their favorite build it then blow it up
nitrous technique.
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  #20  
Old 03-05-2003, 06:02 PM
FASTDARTCHESTER FASTDARTCHESTER is offline
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Guys,

Here to tell you that if you do it carefully, it can be done. I just finished almost the same fricken setup they ran. Only difference: I used the mopar .474" cam and 1.88 intake valves on the 302 heads. Ported the crap out of them though (there is room to do it...I sectioned one first). I had a decent shop do all the machine work: he was dead nuts on all of the surfaces he hit. All in all the engine alone was around 1500. Used cast speed pro pistons (moly rings) and cheap goodies I had laying around.

I will let you know how it runs in the Dart this summer. Still building the trans and prepping the chasis now.

I built this car to see how far I can go on the cheap.
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  #21  
Old 03-05-2003, 07:20 PM
skankweirdall skankweirdall is offline
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Ha! What's really great is the Greenworld Chebbie ad on the same page. Makes nearly as much HP as the 454 $4600 crate motor, and more than most of the small block crates. Hahahahaha.
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  #22  
Old 03-05-2003, 10:43 PM
Swinger321 Swinger321 is offline
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Thumbs up more......

I am all about doing things "on the cheap".

Still no one has answered my question on "pushrods".

How far can you go with milling before you have to use "custom" length pushrods?

And how hard is it to notch pistons?

I wanna run a little more lift than HR did but with about the same duration.

Like a 284' .490" lift. 110 center

A Energizer cam if you wanna look it up.

I like the extreme energy but I want more lope and some more top end.

I alway seem to have oiling probs with SB's. What is the deal with the low oil pressure?

I always use HVHP pumps and still no luck?

Anyone wanna touch on these issues?

Thanks
Swinger
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  #23  
Old 03-05-2003, 11:02 PM
skankweirdall skankweirdall is offline
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Swinger, to answer some of your questions,

First the amount you can mill will vary from engine to engine, a general rule would be .060". You can however shim the rocker shaft on the pedestals if needed using brass shim stock.


On notching pistons you need a Bridgeport and a piston vise to do a good and accurate job. I have seen old valves with cutters epoxied to them used on a drill with the head installed (engine mocked up) But that is not very accurate and quite time consuming. If you don't have a friend with a Bridgeport I'd recommend sending them to a machine shop. It's been about 4 or 5 years since I inquired on the price to fly cut 8 pistons but I think it was about $160 then.


As for your oiling problem I'd need more info. I've never had that problem unless the main or cam bearings were wiped out or a galley plug left out. HV/HP pumps should not be needed at 6000 rpm and below.
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  #24  
Old 03-05-2003, 11:16 PM
Swinger321 Swinger321 is offline
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Default thanks

Thanks for clearing some stuff up for me.

I dunno a wholelot but I amtrying my hardest.

I amsure you know what its like being the only mopar guy in a field of chevy or Frog freaks.

Thanks again.

Kelly
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  #25  
Old 03-05-2003, 11:31 PM
skankweirdall skankweirdall is offline
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No problem Kelly. It's good that you ask though, that is a good way to learn. Just be cautious of who you take advice from, ask and listen to guys (or gals) that have cars that run well.
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  #26  
Old 03-06-2003, 03:11 AM
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I really appreciate mr Dulcich's work and articles, but what bothers me is that he gets awful lot horsepower of anything he builds. His stock 440 rebuild with a cam change makes about the same amount as the Edelbrock RPM package with aluminum heads, and so on. He does not have anything except nice numbers in the dyno. I have asked him to install one fo his engines in to a car and run it in the 1/4, but he said he has not good enough chassis for that purpose. Actually, I wouldn't even want him to install one of them in to a Pro Stocker, or even NHRA Stocker chassis, but more in to something that we all have in our driveways; that is not tuned up to par. I repeat, that I enjoy a lot reading his articles, really think they are the best anywhere, and I appreciate his results. However, I still would like to see real world results that you could easier relate in to than just numbers from one dyno.
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  #27  
Old 03-06-2003, 09:44 AM
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Ted Bromback Ted Bromback is offline
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Lightbulb oil pressure

Swinger, I'm not real sure, but it is my impression that high volume oil pumps do not give you more pressure, just more volume and actually less pressure. Could someone confirm this please?
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  #28  
Old 03-06-2003, 09:55 AM
DartGT66 DartGT66 is offline
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The pressure is regulated by the pressure regulator in the pump, the volume by the displacement the pump is capable of pumping each revolution it turns. So, the pressure can be adjusted both in stock or highvolume pump where ever you want it, as long as the pump can supply enough oil to keep the pressure up. In practice, the hi vol pumps seem to have bigger oil pressure than the stock pumps. Mine have been around 80 PSI.
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  #29  
Old 03-06-2003, 10:13 AM
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Yeah, I agree, I think Steve Dulchich seems to make a lot of power on the dyno, but I need to see one of those bullets run on the track to believe it. Whatever happened to that 600 horse 340 he built for his buddy's cuda a couple of years ago? I want to see what it takes to set up a tunnel ram high rpm small block in the real world, not just on a dyno.
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  #30  
Old 03-06-2003, 10:14 AM
FASTDARTCHESTER FASTDARTCHESTER is offline
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Swinger,

I milled 0.060" off of the deck of the heads, and the intake surface was adjusted accordingly.

I did use custom pushrods from trend engineering (division of Diamond Racing). I think they were around 120 bux. If I remember correctly, when I called comp cams they recommeded 0.150" of lifter preload for hydraulics. I have absolutely no problems. That preload is kind of how you figure if new pushrods are needed or not.

The guys are right, you have to put it together and simulate your particular combo prolly dozens of times before you settle on that setup.

Regarding notching the pistons, I bought 1.88/1.60 valves from Mancini (cheap ones) and made a cutting tool out of them in the shop at work (diameter was larger than 1.88/1.60 when I was done). Then I figured the notch depth I needed on the pistons and put a stop on the valve stem and hit the races ( used a drill to turn the "cutting" valves).

Does that help?
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