oil filter study

[Kevin Garceau]

Here is the study I was talking about, great reading. You will/should all throw your darn frams away after reading this.


http://minimopar.net/oilfilterstudy.html

there this one works...will keep you all busy for a very long time. Look at the filters to avoid section. Fram is number 1 with a bullet

[amxauto-x]

Thanks, I'll print it out for my records. Tom

[amxauto-x]

It says it isn't available just now I'll try later.

[Kevin Garceau]

Ok try now it is a different link, actually includes the other one I pointed out and alot more info.

[dartgt340]

thanks for the info kevin,like i have said before,good advice is hard to find,thanks again

[amxauto-x]

Ok, thanks I'll be awhile reading all that , but I will.

[amxauto-x]

Very interesting artical. Seems the Fram Tough Gard is better than Wix, But AC Delco Duraguard is better. I'll have to look into that closer.

Thanks again, Tom

[92whitedak]

I'm suggesting this either become a sticky for a while or goes down in the tech articles. Kevin, if you are the original writer of the article, that'd be cool with you right? If not, I'm sure someone could convince the guy/gal at minimopar.net to let moparchat go throwing its name about. Definately a very worth while read. A 90 year old grandmother can put together a 500 hp small block. Without the proper knowledge on oiling and filtration (excuse my New Joisee) "It ain't goin' noway-uh"

-Deacon

[Kevin Garceau]

True AMX but if you read it does talk about the paper on the end, I believe this is these are the things that are getting sucked in causing the low pressure. But regardless, lots of info here.....Also I believe I use the wix racing, I am pretty sure its the same as the napa gold. Heck I will have to take a look now.

No it is not my origination. I dont have that much ambition in a years time....

[amxauto-x]

Yes, I liked the idea of the sealing design of the Napa and AC Delco Duraguard and the finer filter fibers of cotton for smaller particals in the Wix.

[Kevin Garceau]

gotta bring this to the first page...cant believe it slipped back to here.
Must not be that important to know what kind of filter you are running and how it compares.

[amxauto-x]

92WHTEDAK suggested it should be a "sticky" I agree. We can always bring it back to the front every couple days!

[littlecampbell]

Well I guess we know not to use Mopar brand filters as well. In the Feb. issue of MM on page 29 they are plugging Mopar filters right in the middle of a bunch of crate motors that are obviously assembled by people that dont know the difference between a caliper and a torque wrench. This bugs the hell outta me! Even if someone bought one of these crates and got one that was put together properly all it would take is a shitty Fram or Mopar labled filter and could have some serious problems
I sent basically the same email to the editors at MM.....be interesting to see if I get a response.

[71383bee]

I think that the editor listed the filters in alphabetical order not in the order of how good they are. There are two groups...Good and Bad. pick any filter in the good group and you won't have problems. i can't believe that the Mobil1 filter with it's superior design and synthetic filter media is worse than the Fram Tough Guard or any other filter that is listed alphabetically previous to the Mobil 1.

[John Kunkel]

This "study" is nothing more than an eyeball evaluation, no scientific methods are used.
If anyone alters his buying habits according to the info from websites like this, I can sell a lot of bridges.

[Robert Cain]

Damn, that is interesting reading. I will probably change my oil filter purchasing habits after this, but I must say, I have used Fram filters for decades and have not had any problems with them. So maybe the poorest filter is still good enough for the vast majority of miles driven.

[Kevin Garceau]

Ya know Robert, that is probably true, but why chance the 1 ina million as when things happen.

True story, in my good race motor BBC yes I know chevy but hey made tons of HP and tq. Anyways I had always ran fram on my mopars and had a fram on there. One morning at a divisional race I saw my oil pressure was way down, I had replaced the oil guage and thought that was it, it was low for that motor but not overly low. Anyways I let it warm up and when I hit the gas the oil pressure dropped,....doh.... So in disbelief I sat there with it idling and called one of my other buddies over. He took a look at it, told me to drive it outta staging and meet him at my pits. I got there he had the jack out and ready to go. He said take that fram filter off. I said how do you know I had a fram filter he says because that is what they do. I put an AC filter on, dont remember which one and pressure jumped 40lbs on the spot. What happens is they get sucked in, and clog the oil passage in the filter.....nice huh. I have since heard major horror stories about them, as in the cheap elements coming apart and ruining a whole motor. You name it, it was at this time I went and found this study and try to pass it on to everyone I know. Oh by the way before ripping on me for my chevy, it was a 3000lb firebird, that could be driven on the street with a few mild fixes, it ran 8.8s in the qtr mile with no power adders.

[Kevin Garceau]

John,
sorry, it has been a while since I went through this site, it used to show the filtering of microns on it, but he has since taken it off. Stating it was not his tests. Besides it clearly states it is a study not a test. Buy what you want, just thought I would try to help the board, this question surfaced from a different thread. If you think I am full of crap that is fine, this not my study just something I have found.

for 71bee... he has them listed as recommend and not, yes he does have them in alph order not listed best to worst.
Hey bee do you run at the grove much? I have been a few times a year. Not much last year, the year before I went with the firebird got no time trials and won box class that was a hoot. I had my daytona there for there mopar weekend but it was a joke, too many cars with radial tires I had trouble with consistent sixty foots. But it was fun and will probably do it again if it doesnt interfere with a bigger pay out race.

[littlecampbell]

Johns probably trippin over his feet changing his Frams

[JVMopar]

Personally I think that the oil filter study comes out to be very true. I also remember seeing this way back with the filtering capabilities stated. Frams are junk. There is no way around that.

As for his study he probably had to take the filtration information off of the site because of the manufactures.

I did an air flow test with a bunch of different air filters using the Superflow 1020 flow bench. K&N wouldn't send me a filter because they were afraid that I was going to test the filtration of the filter, even when I said I wasn't they still wouldn't. So I got one via Summit, and I went around town buying some stock paper elements.

To make a long story short the K&N vs the Purolator had no difference in flow. And on the engine dyno they had no difference in HP.

Hot rod magazine also did a filter test simular to mine and got about the same results. (june 2002)

Good article.

[71383bee]

I like the test because the guy uses plain old common sense. The filters are broken down into category's of how much filter paper, strength of the design, types of seals...etc. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that cardboard endcaps are inferior to metal ones.

Kevin,

Yeah I was at the grove for the Mopar Shoot out...it was damn hot that day! I have yet to run my car in the 1/4 so unfortunately no you would not have seen me, but now that it is painted i will definately be at the shows this year. Even planning on a trip to the Nats depending on how the motor runs.

[amxauto-x]

I think it is a great idea to come up with an artical like this. Some of us have wondered for a while, but who's word to trust. I've asked but they just said they liked so and so filter with no info or rime or reason. The auto parts store changed from Fram to Perolator, I asked why and all they could come up with is they liked them better. No facts.

This tells everyone what is inside and how it relates to flow possibilities.

This artical was offered for peoples information is all.

If Kunkle doesn't like it then he should state why and give his scientific facts on which is the best filter. Maybe do his own tests and publish them. We are waiting!

[Kevin Garceau]

Bee here is a pic of my car that I was running there. I replaced 3 damn freeze plugs that day what a pain. I went out like 4th round when I blew the tires off. Nothing against all the street cars but they really kill a race surface, they hold too much sand and gravel in their grooves. Yes it was hotter than hell. That was before I bought the new motorhome and was using my truck. I went through about 5 gallons of gatorade too.

I will be there from time to time....sorry this is off subject.
I agree anyone wanting to come up with a nother study I will be glad to read it as well. And your right if you think cardboard end caps cant be identified as weak link well....I dont need to finish it.

here is pic...ok never mind it is too big....email me at
kevin.garceau@speed-geeks.com
I will send ya a pic

[Robert Cain]

So did I read that you've also done studies on air filters as well? How about fuel filters? Where is the info? Now I'm intrigued. I hadn't put much thought into oil filters before, but I will now, and into other filter choices as well. Thanks a bunch Kevin, and keep the info flowing!

[amxauto-x]

Robert Cain,

Acually this study was done by Russ W. Knize for his own information and to help others. Kevin Garceau found it and posted it to help us all here to understand the makings of the various oil filters on the market that we use. And I'm glad he posted it. There is a lot of good information.


http://minimopar.net/index.html

http://minimopar.net/oilfilterstudy.html#warning

[Cliff Foster]

What about the Oil filters from K&N? Has anyone heard how they compare?

[superdart]

It is my understanding that K&N oil filters are not good for filtering out small contaminates. From what I read, K&N claims that their filters are designed for racing use...maximizing flow. They're the kind of filter you run when you know your going to change the oil after every race.

[John Kunkel]

If Kunkle doesn't like it then he should state why and give his scientific facts on which is the best filter. Maybe do his own tests and publish them. We are waiting!

You misunderstand, I don't claim to have that info, I merely pointed out that the "study" is flawed and voiced my own personal experience with a product.
If I set out to discredit a product, I'd use more scientific data than is presented in the "study".

Here's the text of a letter from Fram in response to the "study", notice what they have to say about "visual inspection".
You can take it as corporate mumbo jumbo or as food for thought; your choice:


Thank you for the e-mail regarding the quality of Fram filters. We welcome
the opportunity to be of service.

Fram filters meet or exceed the requirements of the original equipment
filter designed for a specific engine. Our filter applications follow the
recommendations of the vehicle manufacturer for form, fit, and function.
Therefore, Fram filters are not manufactured to low quality standards.
Quite the contrary. We believe Fram filters have a proven record for
providing reliability, superior quality, and engine protection over the
service life of the filter.

We have no knowledge of the "quality letter" written 22+ years ago to which
this individual claims to have read. We will not debate the statements made
by individuals that have been posted on websites and chat rooms. However,
we welcome the opportunity to enlighten you on the subjects of Fram
filtering media and end disk construction.

Filter Media:

One commonly-held belief is that the amount of filter paper (media) in a
filter, as measured by its surface area, is the sole determinant of filter
capacity. For example, people will cut open a filter, stretch out the
media, and measure how many square inches it is. This theory holds that the
more square inches of media, the more capacity. Thus, the proponents of
this theory believe that through a simple visual inspection of one aspect of
a filter's media, its length and width, they can tell its relative ability
to hold dirt. Plainly stated, they believe that more paper surface means
more area to trap dirt. What they neglect in this analysis is that the
depth of the media also determines the surface area available to trap dirt,
and they neglect the complicated way that dirt flows through the media and
either becomes lodged or doesn't. In fact, not only depth but also the
actual fiber structure in the media play an important role in determining
how much dirt a filter can trap before it becomes clogged. For this reason,
filter experts do not rely on a visual inspection of any one aspect of
filter media to tell its performance. They perform industry-accepted tests.
For capacity, that test is described by SAE HS806, written by the Society of
Automotive Engineers. Only by running oil filters through this test
procedure can their relative dirt-holding capacities be determined.

When looking at test results and square inches of media used by various
manufacturers, it is clear that some filter manufacturers adopt a strategy
of using media with a structure, composition, and depth that are less able
to hold quantities of dirt, but by packing more of that media into the
filter housing they bring the overall filter capacity up to an acceptable
level. At FRAM, the filter engineers have always worked to optimize the
media's ability to hold dirt. Consequently, they can use less of the media
in the housing but still achieve high capacity. The important point,
however, is that no matter how it is achieved, all a consumer cares about is
the overall life of a filter, and the only industry-accepted way to measure
that is with testing performed to SAE HS806 specifications.

End-disks:

A common misunderstanding among our customer base concerns the end disks in
the oil filter. These disks hold the glue which keeps the pleated media
formed into a rigid circular tube. The glue-to-media interface is also one
of the sealing surfaces keeping dirty and filtered oil from mixing. One
common myth is that only metal end disks can adequately seal and have enough
strength in the hot oil environment. For this reason, FRAM filters are
criticized for having cardboard end disks. The problem is, the material
doing the sealing is the adhesive, regardless of the material of the end
disk. What matters is the strength of the adhesive, its proper curing, the
thoroughness with which it can be applied to the disk, and its adhesion to
the disk. By using cardboard end disks, FRAM filter engineers are able to
specify adhesives with excellent strength and sealing properties, and strong
adhesion to the disk (intuitively, it is easy to make a strong glue bond
with cardboard). Moreover, just as paper media itself is able to withstand
the hot oil environment, so too is the end disk designed of fibers
engineered to be strong and inert in hot oil. The thickness and strength of
the adhesive also stiffens the end disk considerably.

How do FRAM engineers test these end disks to know that they hold up on the
job? Not only do they perform hot oil circulation tests on the filter
element, but they also regularly cut open used filters to examine how well
they have withstood the rigors of actual use on a vehicle. Over 38 years,
Fram's end disks have stood up to hot oil and their adhesives have sealed
off the dirty oil.

We believe that FRAM filters are clearly the best filter available. Fram
stands behind and endorses the filter recommendations listed in the current
Fram application catalogs. As part of this commitment, if you should ever
question the quality of a Fram filter we encourage you to contact the Fram
Product Evaluation Team toll free at 1-877-250-8361 for further assistance.

We hope you find this information of value. Thank you for your interest in
FRAM filters.

Cordially,

Scott Jacobs
Catalog/Technical Service Representative
FRAM Catalog/Technical Services Department

[amxauto-x]

First off, this is from the manufacturer so they WILL be biased. Furthermore the seal may be PARt of the sealing of the cardboard end, but not the only part.

This study was to compare the filters, not to tell us which is best. That was left up to the reader.

When I have more time tomorrow I can read the Fram responce better and comment.

Why didn't you get an answer from the Govenment standards dept. instead of a company? They would be more honest.

And why are you being such a butthead about a simple artical to help people know what is inside the filters??? Which I've already mention the perpose of the artical , but you don't seem to care!

[John Kunkel]

First off, this is from the manufacturer so they WILL be biased.

I alluded to that fact.

This study was to compare the filters, not to tell us which is best. That was left up to the reader.

Obviously you overlooked the section titled "Filter Overview".

Why didn't you get an answer from the Govenment standards dept. instead of a company? They would be more honest.

I didn't personally receive the letter from Fram, I merely posted it in the interest of balanced content. All filters on the market meet the government standard.

And why are you being such a butthead about a simple artical to help people know what is inside the filters???

If you want to resort to name calling you picked a formidable adversary. What you see as an article to "help people", I see as a one sided hatchet job. If you think that simply looking at the components in an oil filter can determine its ability to do its job then you're the type of person that judges people by the color of their skin.

Which I've already mention the perpose of the artical , but you don't seem to care!

I'd prefer to read a scientific article using approved test methods over an eyeball evaluation and have said so. I guess that makes me a butthead.