383 vs. 440 - Moparchat

Mr. Belvedere 2 · #1 03-19-2003, 06:28 PM

I'm going to have an opportunity to get some FREE engines and parts coming up in the future, most of it will be 383 stuff. I've been thinking about swapping out my 318 from my 67' Belvedere for a 440 or even a 400 stroker, but now with the deal that I can't pass up, a free 383 !!! What should I look for as far as pros and cons between the 383 and the 440 ?!?!

Looking for advice,

- Mr. B

Kevin Garceau · #2 03-19-2003, 07:02 PM

Both good engines, obviously the smaller cubes is a factor. But hey its free, you can take what you would have spent on a 440 and put that extra into the 383 and will run the same. If you have a choice I would also take the torque of the 440 for your heavier car and again the larger cubes. But hey again.....its free.

6 packin · #3 03-19-2003, 09:34 PM

The 383 is a great engine, and will probably take more abuse. But the 440 will make way more torque, were ya need it in a heavy car.....down low. You never need to spin the 440 to get great power from it. But a free 383 is hard to beat. Does it run?

73challenger_jm · #4 03-19-2003, 09:40 PM

Get the 383 for free and sell it buy a 440.

rtdonell1 · #5 03-19-2003, 10:24 PM

You dont want that tiny 383. Go for the 440.

p.s. send the 383 to me

528HemiDart · #6 03-19-2003, 10:35 PM

well, the fact that the 383 is free, is hard to decide on, but if I was in your shoes, id take the 383, and sell it? Then get the 440, like Kevin said, the cubes is bigger for the 440, and the torque would move that belvedere twice as fast. The 440 pushes huge torque for that car. Take the 383 and sell it for money to put in the 440. Hope I could help

moparman318 · #7 03-19-2003, 11:32 PM

Take the 383. You might not use it but hey if it's free you could sell it and it would be all profit for a 440 or 528 hemi. I personally will take any free mopar stuff I can get my hands on.

charger_dan · #8 03-20-2003, 04:29 AM

You want a 440.
If you're still not convinced, take a look at my avatar to the left of this message.

Take that free 383, sell it, put $$ towards 440.
You won't regret it.

BEEP383 · #9 03-20-2003, 05:28 AM

By the way.........I need a forged 383 crank & a forged 440 crank........67 to 70 preferred.

71383bee · #10 03-20-2003, 03:14 PM

A running 383 will sell for the most of around $300. The last i saw $300 may by you a block and bare heads for a 440. I gues it just depends on how flexible you are. Despite the opinion of several, the 383 can be built to put some serious power to the pavement. They will out rev a 440 and they are stronger due to the shorter deck. Stroker 383's and 400's are able getting pretty popular and there are plenty of kits to perform the work. If you have the 383 and it is in decent shape then I would sink money into it. If everybody lived by the "cubic inches is everything rule" then why would people be building 340's or 360's. I hate the sugestion that the best upgrade to a 383 is a 440. It's all about the right combination of parts. Guys like cuda can attest to that.

Well enough ranting build what you like, but don't let the cubic inch thing govern your decision.

528HemiDart · #11 03-20-2003, 07:36 PM

well mopar man, selling a 383 is a long ways to purchasing a 30 thousand dollar 528 hemi. Take the 440 like I said its got more torque to move that heavy belvedere

moparman318 · #12 03-20-2003, 09:07 PM

30 thousand!! Were the hell do you buy your engines? They are sure making a load of cash if they are going to charge you that much. MP is under 15K last time I checked. Granted some people have been having problems with them. From what I here they are getting better though. But the 383 could be parted out and might be enough for a good Demon carb and some other stuff.

The topic of stroking 383's and 400's was brought up by 71383bee. Here's and article telling how one of our members stroked his 400. Good write up he did. http://www.arengineering.com/articles/articleframe.html

djswwg · #13 03-20-2003, 11:15 PM

Both are very tuff engines and will serve you well. Just remember, a 383 is basically a big small block. It has a stroke 1/10" shorter than a 350 Chev., and that's why you can get higher rpm's out of them than a 440 without them blowing up. They are also dimensionally smaller (only slightly) than a 440, and weigh a couple of pounds less too. However, for all out "grunt" the 440 will certainly haul your car way quicker than the 383. Personally, if I was going to limit myself to 400 cubes or less, I'd do it with a 360 based engine to save on size and weight. But, and it is a very BIG but, you're getting it for free, and that's a damn good deal for a very respectable engine............djs

fastmopars .inc · #14 03-20-2003, 11:26 PM

actually moparman here in canada a 528 goes for 25g's.
well, a stock 440 can run 13's in anything....can a stock 383 run 13's in a b -body?
if you start with an engine that makes gobs of power, you won't need to do much to make it that much faster.

71383bee · #15 03-21-2003, 01:35 AM

Wow that is some great logic there i can't wait to tell my buddy that his stock 440 72' New Yorker is faster than my mildly modified 71 383 Super Bee. I think I am going to look for a Caddy with a 500 CID motor and then I will really be fast.

Come on now the 383 was the MOPAR Street fighter in the 60's and 70's! It is a stout engine that was designed for the Road runner and Super Bee's in fact the 440 4 Bbl was not even an official option in either the Super Bee or Roadrunner, if you wanted a 440 4 Bbl it was standard in the GTX or the Coronet R/T or Charger R/T which was more expensive and therefore not as appealing by the average joe blow muscle car purchaser.

I guess someone has to tell the Nascar teams that ther 5 liter engines are no match for a stock 440! People have been making excellent power and efficiency out of smaller engines for years now. Look at the 4.7 Liter or even the new 5.7 liter HEMI's.

The point is that if you have a free 383, you should take advantage of what you got. Parting a 383 ain't going to get you a whole hell of alot.

BEEP383 · #16 03-21-2003, 02:59 AM

You know 71383bee is right............you should take advantage of what you got ......the venerable & nasty but yet sneaky 451 stroker has smaller but equally deadly brother........ the 431. This bad boy is capable of 500 plus hp & enough torque to yank up tree stumps.......the sickest part is it just sits there looking like a free 383 that you were given. Later, dudes.

moparman318 · #17 03-21-2003, 03:17 AM

HELL YEAH!!!!!!!

:

Mr. Belvedere 2 · #18 03-21-2003, 03:03 PM

It's official !!! I'm heading into the MOPAR Tomb next weekend (29th/30th), so I'll keep you guys updated on what treasures I find !!! I appreciate the info all of you guys have posted so far, unfortunately I haven't come to a decision yet. But either way I'm getting something for nothing, and you can't go wrong with that deal !!!

Get back with yah later,

- Mr. B

PS. A friend of mine that's local here in VA. and is also a Moparchat member (Jetstar) posted an important question about cylinder head casting numbers. If any of you guys know the numbers to the "good" heads I could use that info as well !?!?!

Thanks again !!!

Mr. Belvedere 2 · #19 03-21-2003, 03:18 PM

In case any of you guys were interested, this is were the engine will go !

For all you B-body lovers . . .

71383bee · #20 03-21-2003, 03:20 PM

Sweet Belvedere even a 318 makes it look fast!!!!

charger_dan · #21 03-21-2003, 06:03 PM

That is one sweet Belvy. I love the color.

I weighed in earlier on your engine situation, suggesting you go with
a 440. I still feel that is excellent advice, as used 440s don't tend to cost
much more than used 383s (at least in my neck of the woods, anyway),
so I would say that if you are planning on going the OEM route for an engine,
with stock bore and stroke, take that free 383, sell it, and put it towards
an engine with more cubes and torque. You will be much happier. I promise.

Yes, the 383 is an EXCELLENT street motor. No arguments there. However,
you will make more power and torque with a 440, for little extra money.

That said, if you're willing to consider non-stock bore and stroke figures,
then I'd definitely go with a low-deck stroker. Something in the neighborhood
of 474 to 496 cubes. With a lightweight piston and rod assembly, large stroke,
and more rigid low deck block, you can't lose! Plus it'll rev like a small block
and make that Belvy scoot like a scalded cat.

Whatever you choose, good luck with your project. You're going to love
going big block!

t2h_68 · #22 03-21-2003, 07:33 PM

thats a nice looking car. My neighbor across the street has one just like it (not as good condition) for sell but it has a scavanged /6 in it.

Ps i have some 383 parts in my garage i might part with

beepbeepsrule · #23 03-21-2003, 11:56 PM

The 383 can really haul if you use 3.91 or 4.10 rear gears. Set the 383 up to rev to 6 grand and hang on...................

rtdonell1 · #24 03-22-2003, 08:16 AM

When I bought my 67 baracuda it came with a 1970 belvadere. I know its has a 383 that doesn't rotate but about halfway around. I think it has haves a 727 trans and a 8 3\4 rear. It has most of the stuf I need to upgrade to biger brakes. most of this Im gessing becous I cant find any websights with info on a 70 belv. all i know is it is still in Illinois. and its the bigest car I have ever seen in my life.

custom880 · #25 03-22-2003, 09:17 AM

I just slapped the crap out of a supposedly built 440 69 Charger R/T, with my well built 73 Charger SE. Mopar against Mopar isn't my most favorite thing to do but I had enough of this idiot playing up his 440. He forgot just how fast a 383 jumps off the line and once you are ahead it's all downhill for the guy behind you. The 383 is not just a good motor but a great motor. It is strong (seen many 440's puke over the littlest thing) and it revs very very fast. Take the money and put it into a 383 stroker and watch the 440's guys jaws drop.

jelsr · #26 03-22-2003, 07:38 PM

Kind of like Bud vs Coors actually. Both have endearing atributes. The 440 has torque with a capital T and the 383 can be made to produce lots of power at astounding RPM's. It's a personal thing!

Mr. Belvedere 2 · #27 03-31-2003, 12:04 PM

Well I made it back from my trip into the Mopar Tomb, and I must say I was pleasantly surprised ! I really went into this whole thing thinking that I would be lucky if I could get a hold of one or two good parts, and those might be 383 parts at that ?!?!

Unfortunately there were no 383 parts to be found, they were all 440 parts (for the most part) !!! So the whole debate of 383 vs. 440 is out the window !!! I would like to thank everyone for putting in there two cents on the discussion. And to the "Pro-383 Guys" I'm sorry to say, but I was "leaning" toward the 440 all along, the fact that there were no 383 parts to be found just finished making my decision for me ?!?! Besides, my car is just such a "heavy pig" it really needs the 440 torque !!! (By the way, I have nothing against a good screaming 383 !!!)

So onto the initial parts list, and when I say "initial" I mean that I'm going back for a second trip soon to get some more !?!?!

2- bare 440 blocks
2- pairs of "906" heads (one pair I gave to my friend "Jetstar" who came with me to help identify parts, I figured it was the least I could do !)
3- 8 3/4 complete posi "pumpkins" (don't know what gears yet ?!)
1- Cast iron low rise big block 4 barrel intake
2- Big block water pump housings
6- 4 barrel carbs (Holley, Thermoquad, AFB, etc . . . )
1- Power steering pump cooler
1- steel 440 crank
1- engine stand
1- complete 318 engine
1- complete 360 engine

Whew, I think that's it for the moment !!! I'm starting to get a little light headed now, and I'm running out of storage space !!!

Thanks again to everyone for there input, hope to talk at yah in the future !!!

- Mr. B

Jetstar · #28 03-31-2003, 01:07 PM

Thats right,it WAS THE LEAST u could do!HeHe

BakedMopar · #29 04-02-2003, 08:42 AM

Well I know your decision was made but i'd like two say that I have a Belvedere II also. It is a original 383 4 speed car. I recently took my motor out and dropped in my brother in laws 440, which is built pretty well. Frist of the torque is definitly there and my current gears are too low. As for the fitment the 383 has so much more clearence than the 440. What i am trying to say is they both have their up and downs its all a matter of what you plan on doing with your ride and second but more important is what your budget will allow you to build. Hey have fun and burn rubber