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  #1  
Old 03-24-2003, 04:16 AM
jamze jamze is offline
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Help Gear head in the making.

Just ran across this site, and couldn’t believe the great forum. Anyway after avoiding the gear head syndrome for years, I think I have been bitten. I recently bought an 86 5th ave with less than 100k miles for the whopping sum of 500$! Great car, the backseat hadn’t even been used, it was really owned by an old lady that used it to go to church and 1 a week shopping. Anyway I want to play with this car and beef it up. I first have a few easy questions, then would like some advice on how to improve on the performance. (Please be gentle with how basic the q’s are).

1. It’s a 318 2bl but what type of engine is it? I have seen 318’s listed as A,B,C and a few other “Models”. Vin # is 1C3BF66P9GX585XXX (Last 3 removed)
2. I cant seem to find an ECU, so im assuming that it has electronic ignition and the dreaded ELB system. Is this the case, or am I lumping 2 systems into one?
3. I currently have the Haynes Dodge/Plymouth/Chrysler 71-89 rwd repair manual. Is there a couple of better books dealing with just my engine, and performance tips? Since this book covers so many variations, it gets rather confusing.


OK, so assuming the following. The budget is limited, and it is my daily use car, so weekend conversions are best. I do have access to 2 gear heads if I get in over my head. What would be the best performance upgrades vs. cost.

1. From what I have read, the ELB system needs to go, to do this I need to replace the distributor, add an ECU and ballast. Then replace the carb. If doing this I might as well go with a 4bl carb w/ new intake manifold. About how much would this cost, factoring in I have a brand new ECU (miss read the above manual). Also what parts could be used for the intake/carb combo.
2. Remove the cat converters. Benefit? Disadvantage?
3. Change timing gear/chain to get rid of nylon one. Benefit? Disadvantage?

If anyone has some better ideas, or suggestions please let me know.

thanks

Side goal, is having a "grandpa" looking car that makes all those kids in there little honda's
Like penstrips and a fart-can muffler really impress a big
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  #2  
Old 03-24-2003, 05:05 AM
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Clead Clead is offline
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Default The best M-body site around

Here's a site you can't live without!
Farley's Diplomat page
You'll find a bunch of us over there discussing everything from upgrades to best t-stat temps, and a ton of other stuff.
Several members here are active there too. Great site.

If you wanna wake the beast up, there's a bunch of things you should know.
First, the rear-end's gotta go. If it's stock it's probably a 2.26 open 7 1/4. That's not helping. Also, you were right about the ignition system. Ditch it and get yourself a MP conversion package, or go the low-buck route and grab everything you need from a junk-yard truck.
Since duals are somewhat problematic on these cars, I had a 2 1/2" single put on my 5th Ave, and man did that wake it up! Stock is a 1 7/8" single. WHEEZE WHEEZE "I can't breathe!!"

Hope this'll get you started. Check Farley's page. I'm sure you'll be a regular
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Old 03-24-2003, 09:05 AM
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dwc43 dwc43 is offline
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Re: Gear head in the making.

1. From what I have read, the ELB system needs to go, to do this I need to replace the distributor, add an ECU and ballast. Then replace the carb. If doing this I might as well go with a 4bl carb w/ new intake manifold. About how much would this cost, factoring in I have a brand new ECU (miss read the above manual). Also what parts could be used for the intake/carb combo.
2. Remove the cat converters. Benefit? Disadvantage?
3. Change timing gear/chain to get rid of nylon one. Benefit? Disadvantage?


If you have what looks like a bid plastic computer box mounted to the side of the air cleaner it is a lean burn system. Dump it. You can pick up a used ecu and wire harness from a salvage yard or get one from mopar. The distributor will be ok to reuse for now.

2. Yes, please remove thos power robbing cats. Gain and extra 20 to 40 horse right there. No disadvantages at all. If you have to pass a smog test ask me latter and I'll tell you how to get around them. On slightly moded engine run a set of duals with 2 1/4 pipe with an H pipe (cheapper than an X pipe, but not as good) and some flowmasters. (2 chambers are louder than 3 chambers). I've never had any probs running duals on them before. Summit racing has headers for 75.oo and hedman and hookers run about 120.00. Run all three and they are all very good.

3.Yes, replace that nylon gear with a double roller timming chain. Advantage, last longer,more accurate,less chain strech and deflection. Nylon wears fast and breaks,stops up oil pick up tube when it starts chipping off too. Nylon was used to reduce engine noise that's all.

For a good street combo use a stock thermoquad and cast intake. All police cars used them. Other performance cars did too. If you have some extra cash get a weiand action plus dual plane and put that thermoquad on it. You can buy a new thermoquad from Advance auto with life time warrany for around 180 and the intake goes for about the same.

The rear could be a 7 1/4 but it would have 2.76 :1 gear in it or it could have an 8 1/4 axle which would be better, but would still have the same gear. The police cars use th 8 1/4 with a 2. 94 : 1 gear for trooper cars and 3.55 : 1 gears for city cars. So go scrap yard hunting. Pick them rears up around here for 80 to 100 all day long.

Get a Summit Racing cataloge and use them for most of your hot rod buys. They carry everything, so if you dont see it call and ask them if they have it. They are ussualy cheaper than every one else and they always give me good service.

Hope this helps some. Just ask if you got more questions. Go beat those ricers too.
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Old 03-24-2003, 04:36 PM
jamze jamze is offline
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Default Re: Re: Gear head in the making.

If you have what looks like a bid plastic computer box mounted to the side of the air cleaner it is a lean burn system. Dump it. You can pick up a used ecu and wire harness from a salvage yard or get one from mopar. The distributor will be ok to reuse for now.

Ok so since I all ready have the ecu all I would need is the wire harness? I thought I would also need to replace the carb as well. Or is that like the distibutor ie would be a good idea to do but not critical in removing the lbs? Also if I remove the LBS can i also scrap the o2 sensor and other smog stuff?



2. Yes, please remove thos power robbing cats. Gain and extra 20 to 40 horse right there. No disadvantages at all. If you have to pass a smog test ask me latter and I'll tell you how to get around them. On slightly moded engine run a set of duals with 2 1/4 pipe with an H pipe (cheapper than an X pipe, but not as good) and some flowmasters. (2 chambers are louder than 3 chambers). I've never had any probs running duals on them before. Summit racing has headers for 75.oo and hedman and hookers run about 120.00. Run all three and they are all very good.

Ok now I read that there are 3 cats involved. can i just cut them out and replace with pipe until i can afford new headers and pipe? Also smog is not an issue for me (nor the car hehehe)



For a good street combo use a stock thermoquad and cast intake. All police cars used them. Other performance cars did too. If you have some extra cash get a weiand action plus dual plane and put that thermoquad on it. You can buy a new thermoquad from Advance auto with life time warrany for around 180 and the intake goes for about the same.

Could you toss a few model #'s this way, so I can do some hunting and get an idea of what im looking for.


Get a Summit Racing cataloge and use them for most of your hot rod buys.

On order, just waiting for it to show up ;>



Hope this helps some. Just ask if you got more questions. Go beat those ricers too.

helps tons!
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  #5  
Old 03-24-2003, 04:39 PM
jamze jamze is offline
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Location: Seattle
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Default Re: The best M-body site around

Quote:
Originally posted by Clead
Here's a site you can't live without!
Farley's Diplomat page
You'll find a bunch of us over there discussing everything from upgrades to best t-stat temps, and a ton of other stuff.
Several members here are active there too. Great site.

Hope this'll get you started. Check Farley's page. I'm sure you'll be a regular
On my way over right now. So Im guessing I have an M body type? What would the 318 be classified as? In my Mancie catalog they list a few diffrent types of 381, but never noticed an M type.
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Old 03-24-2003, 04:46 PM
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dwc43 dwc43 is offline
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Re: Re: The best M-body site around

Quote:
Originally posted by jamze


On my way over right now. So Im guessing I have an M body type? What would the 318 be classified as? In my Mancie catalog they list a few diffrent types of 381, but never noticed an M type.
'67 or later wide block poly 318's are A engines. '68 to '91 are LA engines. '(2 to present are magnum engines. Not a whole lote swaps between these. The M is a body code. Includes diplomat,lebaron,gran fury,5th avenues,early new yorkers,etc.
An A body is a Duster,Dart etc. B body Chargers, RoadRunners, etc. C bodies are polara's imperials, etc.

That should anwser what cars to look for in the other post to me, but there are others with parts that swap too. Any F M or J car will have stuff that swaps. F body Volare' Aspen also cop cars were made in this body too.

I'll anwser other post latter. Little busy now.
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Old 03-24-2003, 05:27 PM
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dwc43 dwc43 is offline
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Re: Re: Re: Gear head in the making.

Quote:
Originally posted by jamze
If you have what looks like a bid plastic computer box mounted to the side of the air cleaner it is a lean burn system. Dump it. You can pick up a used ecu and wire harness from a salvage yard or get one from mopar. The distributor will be ok to reuse for now.

Ok so since I all ready have the ecu all I would need is the wire harness? I thought I would also need to replace the carb as well. Or is that like the distibutor ie would be a good idea to do but not critical in removing the lbs? Also if I remove the LBS can i also scrap the o2 sensor and other smog stuff?

** Carb will still work but good ieda to get rid of it latter,o2 can go just unplug it or swap in a different manifold,yes scrap all smog crap.If you go to headers you will have to tap and plug the air holes on the head just under the exhaust port if you have those. By the way if distributor has two pick ups in it ( do you see one or two connectors 2 or 4 wires comming from it) get rid of the 2 pick up kind. One is for run and one is for start and I cant tell you which one is which. I forgot some have these.

2. Yes, please remove thos power robbing cats. Gain and extra 20 to 40 horse right there. No disadvantages at all. If you have to pass a smog test ask me latter and I'll tell you how to get around them. On slightly moded engine run a set of duals with 2 1/4 pipe with an H pipe (cheapper than an X pipe, but not as good) and some flowmasters. (2 chambers are louder than 3 chambers). I've never had any probs running duals on them before. Summit racing has headers for 75.oo and hedman and hookers run about 120.00. Run all three and they are all very good.

Ok now I read that there are 3 cats involved. can i just cut them out and replace with pipe until i can afford new headers and pipe? Also smog is not an issue for me (nor the car hehehe)

*** Yes, pipes place in there will work, or if you can use a long pry bar to hollow them out. It takes a while beating and banging with a hammer on the pry bar to knock this junk loose. Wear a dust mask too if you go this route. If you have a torch and mig welder cut it open,gut it,weld it back.


For a good street combo use a stock thermoquad and cast intake. All police cars used them. Other performance cars did too. If you have some extra cash get a weiand action plus dual plane and put that thermoquad on it. You can buy a new thermoquad from Advance auto with life time warrany for around 180 and the intake goes for about the same.

Could you toss a few model #'s this way, so I can do some hunting and get an idea of what im looking for.

**** Not sure what model numbers mean. Car years or parts??

Get a Summit Racing cataloge and use them for most of your hot rod buys.

On order, just waiting for it to show up ;>



Hope this helps some. Just ask if you got more questions. Go beat those ricers too.

helps tons!
***** Glad it helps. Since you are not up to speed on knowledge of what changes and so so forth let me make this suggestion. Goto the dealer parts department. Tell them to look in the mopar performance catalog ( you may want one only 5 bucks) and get them to order the engine book, chassis book, and oval track book. They should be around 20 each and have a ton of knowledge for the beginner and expert alike. This will be the best money you will spend 'cause it will save you money in the long run. 'Course most people on here will too so just ask no matter how dumb it might sound too.
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