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#1
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understanding carb specs.
Does anyone know of a good reference for understanding all the specs of a carb?
I.E. IDLE AIR BLEEDS SEC: BOOSTER TYPE: METERING BLOCK # P. IDLE FEED RESTRICTOR I'm looking at the Demon carbs specs page http://www.bgfuel.com/demon/29.aspx and realized how little i know about carbs. I'm trying to find a carb that will work on my 383. but thats a question for another time, right now i just need to understand the specs. |
#2
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Go to your local speed shop and buy the books they have, on Holleys and Carters and Edelbrocks and of course Demons. Any or all of them, I do. Just bought a Demon book a week ago.
Get an old carb from a friend and take it apart and look at the book and pick out the idividual parts and just check them out. Then put it back together and try a different brand carb and do it again. Practise, practise, practise. |
#3
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do you know what the price range is for the demon carbs?
from what i have seen and understood those carbs are awsome. But i'm guessing your gonna pay for it also. amxauto-x what carbs are you currently using? I'm gonna go get the holley book today. |
#4
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Talk to cuda66273, his business; http://www.4secondsflat.com/
$450 and up, I'm thinking. I'll be getting a 650 or 750 Demon soon. I've used Holleys, Carters and Edelbrocks. The Carters are much better than the Eddys. Holleys are ok. Never used a Demon. I've got Eddys on the van and AMX. Will put the Demon on the AMX. Have a Carter on the Ramcharger. |
#5
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IF this car is in any way a street car - partly or wholy - consider the ... TQ !!
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#6
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Oh ya, why did I forget that one. Never had one, but I was doing the car thing in the '60s and '70s when those were very prevalent on Mopars. And real good too.
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#7
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Demon makes 5 different models....each one is specific to the application.
They range in price from $259 to $1200 If you go to http://www.4secondsflat.com/Carb_and...rder_form.html Copy and paste the info into an email I'd be happy to recommend the correct Demon for your engine combination. You may also want to read the bottom section of this page: http://www.4secondsflat.com/fuelsystems.html Don |
#8
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Damn Don....
over 12 HUN for a carb !! ....... it is FI time !! For under a hun you can do all the trix to a TQ !! |
#9
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Forgive my stupidity but what does TQ stand for, or is that the actuall name of the carb manufacturer?
Thanks Don! I'll probably be sending you an email for your recomendation. |
#10
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Quote:
Not a bad questian. Not everyone has heard of everything |
#11
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Are there certain TQ'S i should stay away from?
A guy i know was saying something about the ones with the silver top and bottom caps on the bowl and a black center band i should stay away from. He did not explain why. |
#12
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All Thermoquads are built like that. The middle section is a plastic. Some have been known to warp. You have to be carefull of what you buy.
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#13
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i'm guessing they make replacement bowls though, correct?
Thanks guys for all your help. its greatly appreciated!! |
#14
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There is a Thermoquad guy here that'll have to tell you all about them. I've only seen them, not worked on them.
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#15
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I think that I know a little about the TQ's............. in fact - I have been accused of being the Captain of the ThermoSquad !!
As far as what was mentioned about the bowls......warping and cracking does occur but not that often. And there are "better" ones to start with. Normally the ones in the early through mid 70's are a better HP piece. Is this car going to be a streeter? |
#16
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Demon-Sizzler is they guy with tons of TQ knowledge and builds them for people.
The TQ is a very good carb. Remember, it is a spread bore design, so it will not fit on most intakes, without an adapter plate. I really like the old TQ carbs, but, they just won't work for my application. There is NO TQ that can touch the $1,200 Demon that is for all out race. |
#17
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Well Ed............I would really hope that the Demon carb can out-perform a TQ !!! .......... on a race-only test.
Especially since that TQ was a OEM item, was emissions designed and that a total HP prepped TQ should be only about 1/4 the cost of that Demon-Berri. BUT on a street/strip combo test(ET and speed, fuel mileage, driveability, plug life etc) - where everything is considered - I submit to you that the TQ will spank that Berri. Why won't a TQ work for your application? |
#18
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yep, its gonne be a street.
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#19
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The best thermoquads to get are from 1972-75, easy to work on, easy to tune and you can still get parts except different jets or rods. The jets and rods can still be had from DemonSizzler or other private parties, you just can't go into autozone and find them. If you have a 318 or 340/360 then look for the ones with the small 1 3/8" primaries, if you have a big block then the 1 1/2" primaries are the way to go. I have a 340 model on my factory smog 1980 318 and I changed the primary and secondary jets down a couple of sizes and it works great. Starts right up, even at -25 deg below zero and gives excellent gas mileage with a good tuneup and your distributor setup correctly. I think I get 18-20mpg in the city and 24 on the highway as long as I stay out of the secondaries and I don't go rodding around allot. I rebuilt my very first one on a saturday morning and had it running great by 11 am, simple to work on.
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#20
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cfm wise, how big to the TQ'S come?
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#21
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Typical OEM sizing is 800 and 850 but they can be made to flow from 600 to 1000 cfm with some simple mods.
A bud of mine has a project going that we will be using a TQ on a slant 6 - using only 1/2 of the carb. I have a planned project where I am going to use a PAIR of TQ's on a 496 BUT will be reducing the primary sides down to 1" or 1 1/4". |
#22
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
So far, the best intakes will not fit the TQ without an adapter plate. Don't get me wrong. I really like the TQ and have run them in the past with NO complaints, just ear-to-ear grins. It only bothers me when supposed experts try to compare a TQ against a $1,200 Demon and then come off with "I would really hope that the Demon carb can out-perform a TQ !!!". That's when it bothers me. |
#23
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Hey Dandy Don....I see your virus is cleared up... or have you been visiting a few of them Surrey girls again?
Are you gonna try and make it to Mission in August?...Sorry to butt in on the thread.... |
#24
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Now Ed.......... what is your defination of "eat it alive" ?? What motor do you have? Is this a street application at all?
Why does all of this bother you? Shouldn't a piece that is race-designed and cost 4 times as much BEAT a piece that is a basic OEM part - IN a race-only comparison ? |
#25
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My motor is all street (gears in the back won't let me race, yet).
Again, you are trying to compare a TQ to a $1,200 King Demon... Try comparing the TQ to the comprable Speed Demon that is about $440. If you could read my entire post, you would see that the reason it bothers me is because you keep trying to use a $1,200 King Demon as the reasoning to go with a TQ. You refuse to compare Apple-to-Apples. An 850 Speed Demon is close to the 850 TQ and the 750 Speed Demon is close to the 750 TQ. The Speed Demon will cost between $400 - $440 and be setup for your specific application with great support. The TQ can be had for about $300, when you can find one. Then it needs to be properly rebuilt. You will also need the $50 - $75 strip kit, to tune it. You will spend a day at the track, to get it properly tuned (if you're lucky). What you end up with is a great carb. It has great MPG and a respectable ET. The Speed Demon will give you a better ET and have respectable MPG. It's a slight handoff, however, the Demon will actually fit my intake and maintain proper hood clearance. The TQ will require an adapter plate and then it won't have proper hood clearance and it will bust the factory fiberglass RamCharger. That is a handoff that is unacceptable. Again though, it comes down to comparing apples to apples and not using a $1,200 King Demon as your prime reasoning in justifying the use of a TQ. If you try to maintain your objectivity and compare Apples-to-Apples (as Demon-Sizzler does), then I won't try to refute what you have to say. However, you are unable to maintain objectivity. Demon-Sizzler has a great thread on the proper tuning of a TQ. It has earned its place in the tech archives, because he was very good at what he intended to get across. |
#26
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......and the motor that you use is ? .....and you define "eat it alive" as ?
Objectivity?........... I will admit that the Berri carb will outperform a TQ on a race-only format. Being somewhat of a TQ fan........and admitting that.......that is not exihibiting objectivity, fairness, honesty and open-mindedness ? TOTAL "objectivity" ??........why not then compare a OEM vac-secondary Berri against that TQ ?? Where do you get those TQ costs? Good core carbs are between 5$ to 80$ ......... with a total rebuild at about a 150$ with all the good parts. BUT those strip kits are MORE than you mention. |
#27
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I think I'll stick my nose in here and give you my 2 cents worth....
In their day the TQ's we're a good carb and still are to a point... But let's look at it realisticly....parts are really hard to come by and getting harder to find, whereas the Demon parts are readily availble from just about any parts house, jets, gaskets, power valves are all the same as Holley...esy to find and the modular design makes them infinately tuneable. When you look at flow numbers keep in mind that Demons are WET FLOW tested...which means that the air flow is mixed with a liquid the same weight as fuel, this decreases the numbers because of the weight of the air going through the venturis. If you were to dry flow a Demon you'd see that the 750 will actually pull over 800 and a 650 flows close to a 750 Holley, Eddy or TQ. We need to look at the whole product line...Demons are very specific to manifold signals generated by the duration of the cam which makes them far easier to tune as the carb is calibrated to read that signal and major mods aren't required to get good milage, clean crisp idel and excellent WOT. If you want to keep your car to a stock appearance then find a TQ core, build it, tune it and be satisfied with the end result, but when you drive it from Californnia to Denver don't expect it to perform at 5000' without searching for correct rods to lean it down....the Demon?... any parts store, 5 minutes with a screwdriver and allen wrench and your done. The TQ's are calibrated to handle the manifold signal delivered by the factory camshafts...change that signal and you've got tuning and performance issues. Not trying to knock the TQ's at all, but it's just so much easier for most guys here to bolt on a Demon...wether it's a Road Demon JR. at $239.00 or a Mighty Demon at $499.00 and have something that's brand new, repairable and tuneable, than to struggle with parts and knowledge availability of a TQ. |
#28
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Yeah, but I think a stromberg 97 will wipe the demon's butt at the track, they used to use them on top fuelers didn't they?
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#29
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Yup, 8 of them
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#30
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And 2 cents is ALL it is worth .......what partz are really needed for the TQ that you can't really get or very EZily fab yourself? And I DO understand that the Holley fans NEED all that parts availability - those Berri carbs EAT most of those parts up on a regular basis !! Infinately tuneable? .... I submit to you that a TQ with jets and rods is FAR more precisely tuneable than any jet/power valve combo.
5000' in Denver? ... are you aware that a TQ is made that has an auto-compensate for that from the OEM. But with a regular TQ......all it takes is a simple 20 second tweak with a small screwdriver on that primary rod tree. 5 minutes on a Berri?.........now WHAT can you on a Berri in TWICE that amount of time ?? !! : Manifold signals?..........I would agree to a point BUT on most HP applications that are discussed here the TQ lives quite nicely. Now if you start talking a real fast 100% race cars........I would have to agree with you. Since 99.99999% of the race cars at the track agree with that ALSO. And I am not trying to knock Berries.. ...... but I like to be different. And so do most people here on this BB do tooooo. We all have Mopars. OR should we all be the same as the rest of "them"?? - driving Chebbies, Furds and Ponti-yaks. stromberg 97's ??.......... now THERE is a fuel-efficent piece..... |
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