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  #1  
Old 05-31-2003, 08:35 PM
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Help pilot bearing lube?

I fired up the Duster for the first time in months after getting all crazy with repainting the engine bay and rewiring everything and such. After checking for leaks and tuning the motor, I let it sit for an hour or so while I watched speedvision. I come back out and there is a puddle on the floor. Investigation reveals it dripped out from in between the lakewood bellhousing and the cover that goes in between the block and the bell. When I put in the pilot bushing, I used some grey multipurpose lube I had laying around. Approximately half of what I put in the crank with the bushing is now on my garage floor. Did I maybe use too much, or is it the wrong stuff to use in the first place. Should I have used wheel bearing grease instead? I really dont want to wrestle the 833 out again, along with the lakewood bell, but will if I have to. Could I have just used too much? or did I make a major screw up using multipurpose (grey) grease? I dont want to damage the input shaft to the tranny. Help!
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Old 05-31-2003, 11:36 PM
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I've always been told that there is no need for lube on the pilot bushing. That being the case, I have never used lube there and have never had a problem with the 4-speeds that I ran, in the past.
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Old 06-01-2003, 12:09 AM
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Ed,

you dont know how relieved I am to hear that, I really didnt want to drop the tranny again. Maybe it wouldnt be such a pain if I had a lift but it can really get to me on my back with the car on jackstands. I bought a tranny cradle that attaches to the floor jack but it is only slightly better than worthless. I just hope that the lube isnt all over my clutch now, maybe since I didnt find it till later after I shut off the motor the lube drained out and most drained off the flywheel surface. I got my fingers crossed on that one. We will see. Live and learn. I fired up the motor again later this evening and it didnt drain any more so I guess it has drained all its gonna. I hope it's gonna be ok. Havent driven it yet, tomorrow will tell I guess. Thanks

Bruce
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Old 06-01-2003, 12:32 AM
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The first few times, I bench pressed the tranny into place. Darn those suckers are heavy... lol

As the lube oozed out of the bushing, it would have leaked down the fly wheel, onto the disc, over the pressure plate and then finally dripped away. Now then, how much is still on the flywheel, how much soaked into the disc, etc??

If any happened to get between the disc and the flywheel or between the disc and the pressure plate, I would think that your going to eat up a lot of disc surface, burning it off.
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Old 06-01-2003, 03:49 AM
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if the pilot bearing is like most cars, it is what is known as an "oilite" bushing... meaning sintered bronze and carbon (graphite). the process to manufacture it is roughly as follows: powdered bronze metal and powdered graphite are mixed (i dont know the proportion) then pressed under very high pressures and temperatures. the resulting chunk can then be machined to any desired shape. because of the graphite in the metal, it is self lubricating, and needs no oil or grease. it is, however, reasonably brittle, and will not bend. it breaks when you try to bend it. as long an there is no load on this type of bearing, other than the forces to keep the pilot shaft aligned when the clutch is disengaged, it will probably last the life of several clutches, but as it is so inexpensive to replace, it makes sense to replace it and the clutch release bearing any time the transmission has been removed. the only times i have seen ball or roller bearings used in pilot bearing applications was in vehicles rated over 1 1/2 tons, or where a heavy duty truck transmission was used.
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Old 06-01-2003, 09:29 AM
victorian4ever victorian4ever is offline
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I think I would remove the clutch inspection cover and have someone depress the clutch while I hosed down everything with aresol brake cleaner. You could also pull the coil wire, so the engine didn't fire, and have your helper rotate the engine while you sprayed.
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Old 06-01-2003, 10:14 AM
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victorian4ever;

Theres no inspection cover on Lakewood bellhousings. (Scattersheilds) The spot he'll need to do it in is the clutch fork entrance.

ehostler; Do you still bench press them in? Last time I tried that, I was there all day.
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Old 06-01-2003, 10:15 AM
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victorian,

I thought along the same lines, the lakewood bell has no inspection cover but I could get in the side where the fork enters the bell. Being a new clutch I sure dont want to burn it up on the first time out.

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Old 06-01-2003, 10:16 AM
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rumble, you and I musta posted at the same time, thinking the same way too!
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Old 06-01-2003, 10:36 AM
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LOL, yes I see that.
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Old 06-01-2003, 01:52 PM
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bench pressing 4-speeds was back in the days when I was young and stupid. I haven't bench pressed a 4-speed in over 15 years now...
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Old 06-01-2003, 02:35 PM
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I will start by saying that I agree that lubing it, isn't really necessary.

But I will ad that there is a procedure for lubing it, that was given to me, while at "mechanics school"

The material the bushing is made of is very pourus(as described earlier)

Simply put the bushing on the face of your thumb, facing upward like a cup.

Fill it to the top with oil

then use your finger, or other thumb, place it over the top and squeeze. The slight pressure causes the oil to impregnate the bushing, and you are all done.

bench press a 4 speed? No thanks man. A lot of that stuff get's pretty heavy. I was military pressing a steering box, to get it into a car on thursday. Trying to get the right twist to get it in, up above your head. That was enough of a workout for me.
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Old 06-01-2003, 05:47 PM
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Dang Eddie,
I just bought a 23 spline this week and my back is still hurting from dragging it into the truck. Anyways, I'll probably have a load of questions for you and the other 4 speed experts in the coming weeks (I'm a newbie to this 4 speed stuff!)-
Nate
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  #14  
Old 06-01-2003, 09:25 PM
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Well, the Auto Hobby shop on base didn't have the proper equipment for me to R&R the tranny, while the car was on stands, so I made do with what was available...

Those were also the days that I would push the big MA-3 Air conditioning units, up to and away from B-52 bombers. Push cars in/out of the auto hobby shop, and on one weekend, I swapped 3 engines between 3 cars (only managed to dislocate one backe rib).
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Old 06-02-2003, 01:39 AM
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Quote:
bench pressing 4-speeds was back in the days when I was young and stupid. I haven't bench pressed a 4-speed in over 15 years now...
I did a bench pressing of the tranny about 2 years ago. It took all day to do. Now that I think about it, Once I got it to a certain point, (Ya, dead tired was one of the points) I put it up on the floor jack and waited for the wife.
Within 5 mins. it was in, 1 shot.
(Thanks honey!)
Quote:
one weekend, I swapped 3 engines between 3 cars
I got 2 1/2 in a day once. Start to finish + running.
Not no more though. I'm not just healing as fast as I used to.

That bearing trick I heard before. The bearing itself is self lubeing. It sweats. That's what I was told.
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Old 06-02-2003, 09:15 AM
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Hmmm..... So, you struggled with it all day, and it only took the wife 5 minutes to get it in there... lol Not many men would be admitting to something like that... lol
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Old 06-02-2003, 10:02 AM
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Default Ohhh twister of words...or did I write that?

NA, just 5 mins. with her help. Bamm. IN!
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Old 06-02-2003, 10:13 AM
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Well I guess this has just been another lesson learned the hard way, tho it turned out ok in the end.

I had installed the pilot bushing without any lube the first time, and then got to thinking that it probably needed some lube.
I checked in the mopar manual cd and it said to put about a 1/2 teaspoon of multipurpose grease in the end of the crank, so I dropped the tranny a second time and did. I believe I used too much though. You can bet I will just use the squeeze the oil in the bushing trick next time.

The last time I did a clutch and tranny was in the mid eighties after I loaned my van to my boss who promptly blew first gear out of my 3 speed manual. I had to bench press that tranny out and in, no fun but got it done.

This lesson is one I wont likely forget anytime in the near future.

Thanks to everyone for your input on this.

Bruce

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Old 06-02-2003, 06:09 PM
John Kunkel John Kunkel is offline
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Every service manual as far back as I can remember has specified wheel bearing grease in the pilot bushing cavity and, in some cases, the input shaft splines and that's what I've always used, never had any run out.
I suspect that any grease that would run out of the cavity was made from poor base material.
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