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#1
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TCI converters exposed
Here is some info I dug up on a web site that shows some eye opening info on TCI converters.
http://www.converter.cc/tci_exposed.htm These people seem only to deal and sale Mopar converters. Just wondering anyone has any knowledge or used them. Here is there main web site also. This is found for the search of a econo converter for our mopars, that wont break the bank. http://www.converter.cc/mopar.htm This web site prints the amount of effiecantcy that there converters have, very important in a race car. Read this interesting hu? http://www.converter.cc/technical_discussion.htm
__________________
68 Coronet 69 Super Bee......new 500 cid comin soon! 73 Duster witha missing 440/727 |
#2
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I'm not impressed with TCI either. Back in the late 1980's my friend ordered a TCI converter for his 904 trans in a 318 challenger. They sent him a 727 transmission. After exchanging that converter for the correct 904 unit and paying a transmission shop install it, the transmission shop said there was some problem with the converter, that it airaited (sp) the trans fluid, so they had to remove the new TCI converter. My friend finally got an A1 converter that had been working fine for years.
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#3
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My first TCI high stall converter was a 10 inch 3500 converter that had been reworked by TCI to stall at 4500. It stalled on the button at 4500 behind my 318, and ran a best pass of 12.87@105 with an awesome 1.67 60 foot time. I ran this converter for 11 years while racing 5 to 10 times a years and some street driving. I pulled the converter last October after my 60 foots had been dropping over the last several years. I replaced the converter with a $425 dollar TCI unit that stalls at 3800. The converter was not the problem, I have since found valvetrain and electrical issues that were the root of the problems. The old TCI unit has since ended up in a friend's budget Mopar, my old Dart Sport (should be an easy 12 second street car). My same friend has been running a TCI converter behind a 10 second Demon with a transbrake for about 10 years without any problems whatsoever.
I am very curious to read these articles, as I and everyone that I know of that are running these converters are not having any problems. I did want to share my experience with TCI converters as a counter point as well. In my opinion, the TCI converters are great mid range performance race units. They are a ton better than B&M, and light years beyond GER for quality and durability. Anyone on a budget who cannot afford the $1000 Coan or Dynamic converters, must have an less expensive alternative to get out and get racing. If I had a $20,000 race car that ran sub 10's, I would opt for the big name converter, but since I have a 318 Street car I don't (not that your topic was about high $$$ converters, either). Dartman |
#4
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I like hearing your opinions Dartman, I would rather listen to a fellow racer any day than a company making a sales pitch. Im always opended minded on these things. I have had no expericance with TCI, I have run a B&M, and currently running a GER 3000. I have experianced no failures, with either. I would love to get my hands on a real race converter, like around 4000 stall. I just dont have the $500+ at this time to dump on one, my car isnt broke so I will leave it be for now.
__________________
68 Coronet 69 Super Bee......new 500 cid comin soon! 73 Duster witha missing 440/727 |
#5
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They are just trying to sell a converter to ya that's all. They think they can do that by putting down the top seller in tranny's and converters. That will back fire on them real quick. The GER I ran or tried to run in my '70 RoadRunner in the late '80's was junk. Replaced it with a TCI unit. The b&m shift kits has cuased two tranny's to grenade themselfs on me. I run TCI shift kits and now that the money is there I run there tranny's too.
I looked through all of those pics and cant see half of what the claim. I saw no die grinder marks on the fron hub and why did they not put a dial indicator pic ture up to prove it. I did see some score marks here and there. That just proves it was run overheated. Real easy to do on a transbrake car eith insuffiecent cooling. I could knock half or all the paint off the nose trying to install the tranny to the engine. All his claims are bogus and can be explained. They just want to sell you there converter. No way I would not send them my money for being so dishonest to the public. |
#6
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I don't know about the link to the Converter company, but my comments were from the experiance I had 20-years ago. Maybe we just got a bad converter?
As for the GER converters their quality is hit or miss. I know a person who has ran one for years without any problems, but I know many others that had nothing but problems with them (including me.) |
#7
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Me to the GER converter I run seems to do ok, I know there cheap. I know several people who have run them with no problems, a 4000 converter for a little over $300 is very cheap. i know a guy who runs that converter in a 91 Dakota 440. eddy heads/509 cam with 3.91 gears. I pulls very hard, for sure his 60 foot times are deep in the 1.7's. He runs 12's flat and mid 7.5 sec in the 1/8th. His buddy bought one, knowing that his truck run well with it. His tranny failed once, went through it, failed again because of the same new converter. Its temping indeed.
Hey Dwc43 Just wondering what a TCI conveter with around 4000 stall would cost? Do you have any lines on a good used conevrter? Let me know!
__________________
68 Coronet 69 Super Bee......new 500 cid comin soon! 73 Duster witha missing 440/727 |
#8
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They think they can do that by putting down the top seller in tranny's and converters.
I'll ask you a second time for statistics to back up that claim. The b&m shift kits has cuased two tranny's to grenade themselfs on me. The shift kits were the cause? You know this how? The transmissions literally grenaded? (Exploded?) I looked through all of those pics and cant see half of what the claim. What about the other half? Can you see that? The shoddy workmanship is apparent to the unbiased eye. |
#9
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That isn't my experience
I have been using a TCI nine inch spragless in my Hemi car for the past twenty years. There are literally thousands of passes on it, with no problems.
It is a quality piece, and I would certainly buy one again in a New York heartbeat. Yank converters may be just great, but the way to sell them is to let the product itself do the talking. If it is that good, word will get out and the converter will sell themselves. If you have to personally attack the competition to sell your product, then that makes me suspect right from the get go. |
#10
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Quote:
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#11
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Re: That isn't my experience
Quote:
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#12
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Quote:
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#13
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John:
What converter do you run? I see from your sig the 4 speed car, but was wondering if thier was a high stall automatic in htere somewhere. I have never even heard of Yank converters before today, so I wonder if you run one. Although I am biased since I own a TCI converter, I thought that the claims would have been backup up with better and/or more detailed pictures of what they were trying to say. In order to accurately make a comparision of workmanship, I assume having a Coan or Dynamic converter to compare it too would be a necessary benchmark for workmanship, and Yanks did not show an example of thier own workmanship either. I imagine most of us on this board have never cut a torque converter in half ever, let alone know what's good or bad in the goodies inside. So I guess I'm saying I agree with the "half of what thier saying" statement. The scratches and scuff marks could have come from a TCI converter with "500 miles", but in what application? I'm sure any allout trans brake converter that lasts for 500 miles would be a bargain. So the other "half" could be easily visible abuse from a heavily used turque converter. It is purely a selling tool, a not very good one either. Personal experience and sharing that experience is a better way to get good recomendations. My own personal dislike of B&M stems initially from bad experiences with thier shifters (not really related), and how variable thier stalls speeds on thier low end converters are. That's the end of my own personal experience, with the expception of my TCI one from above. I am still curious to hear what anyone has to say about Yank converters? Good? Bad? I went into those articles with an open mind to see if there was an issue that I should be aware of, and found very little to concern me. I even thought twice about posting my reply here, since my own personal opinion on thier selling tactics means ziltch. Dartman |
#14
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By the way...
I paid $425 for my 3800 TCI converter.
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#15
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They did not explode.Only a sprag or other internal failure could do that.
So, when you say they "grenaded" what do you mean? How do you know the B&M shift kits played a part in the failure? Don't be afraid to explain in minute detail including laboratory analysis. Still waiting on those statistics showing that TCI outsells B&M. I saw no shoddy workmanship. What I saw was an overheated converter most likely from a trans brake car with improper cooling and may have even had the wrong converter for it. You're an expert at diagnosing converter failures? Where'd you gain that experience? There is just no proof. Only them bashing TCI converters. Kinda like your bashing of B&M products with no proof? How's the shoe fit on your foot? It's pretty obvious that your choice of products is driven more by hatred and adoration than logic. John: What converter do you run? I see from your sig the 4 speed car, but was wondering if thier was a high stall automatic in there somewhere. I've run several different brands both on the street and the strip. My last strip converter was a TCI, never had a problem with it but that was many years ago. I wouldn't recommend or condemn any particular converter based on my personal experience. Some good companies turn out an occasional bad part and some bad companies turn out an occasional exceptional part. The fact is, and I wish more people would accept this, EVERY brand of converter will suffer failures, it's a simple byproduct of human intervention. It's sad that some feel it necessary to bash a single brand and exalt another. |
#16
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Let's see. I worked for a dealer. I was the shop foreman. I own my on shop. I build and race cars for a living. I have a college degree, so I'd say I'm pretty qualified along with having several of them cut open for inspect.
There's plenty of proof. b&m failure after failure. Just look them up on this site alone. They dont have a quality product that holds up.Not there converter,shifters or trans. The shoe dont fit. My choice is based on consistency,price,a quality product that works time and time again. Your ticked cause you like them. So like them. I dont care what you like, it's your choice do as you please. I'm through with this wasted discussion. |
#17
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I have a TCI on back order and will not cancel it, neither will I consider even looking at a Yank or whatever the hell it is , any company that goes to that length critizing another product rather than promoting its own products capability is suspect.
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#18
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Hmmmm...
Anyone Realize that there is no indication that those pictures are actually of a TCI converter?? i didn't see any #'s or anything....or even a TCI sticker or label...which would be easy to fake anyway.
I CALL BS on that one. |
#19
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I agree qmar. It's most likely one of there on. And a very low sales ploy.
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#20
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Wasn't TCI sold to new owners about 5, or more, years ago? I thought Bill Taylor started TCI. He now has a converter/trans co named BTE.
I bought a TCI 11" back in '82, it stalled 2000rpm. I wanted 2800-3200. They took it back and sold me a 10". It stalled at 3500rpm. That was more than what I wanted for a street car. It ran good at the track, so I kept it, but it sucked on the street as it had terrible slippage, it had 20% or more slippage cruzing at 3500rpm. I've run JW, A1, Turbo Action and an old B&M J convertor. The only one that gave problems was the JW. After 24 passes from new, it broke, sounded like it had $20 of loose change in it. Ordered a new A1 while the JW was being fixed. Put over 400 trouble free passes on it. After freshing up the motor the rebuilt JW was put back in. It ran as fast as the A1 for 37 passes, then 2nd round of the '95 Mopar Nats Quick 16, with a .030 advantage at the tree, the stator breaks. Ran .4 off and lost. Would Yank put theirself at risk with a slander suit by not using a TCI converter in their add? Quality at the larger companies is as good as the employees they are able to get. Cecil |
#21
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i have a TCI streetfighter in my roadrunner. it said in my paw book stall could be expected anywhere from 3200-3800, i've gotten it to brake stall at 2900 so far, and i dunno about flash stall, i'm watchin the stop light and road when i launch, not my tach... i'll have to watch it when i go to break in my motor again after i get it rebuilt.
the only problem i've ever had with my trans after i put the tci in, was with the kickdown cable i put on at the same time. i was doin a lot of adjusting to see what i could come up with, and it burned it up...so i saw a good opportunity to rebuild the 727 with all racing bands etc, and put a hemi 5.0 kickdown in it.... the only experience i've had with the TCI 10" i have, and the other 12" that was on it, is this one is neutrally balanced, and the other wasn't. i dunno what kind of 12" was on it, but it sucked. another problem with the 12", was the kickdown was ni-tied back...so it really didn't stall at all! i think the highest i got it before the rebuild was 1200... pretty sucky launches... i agree with dwc and qmar, there is no indication that this is a TCI converter. my TCI has a bright yellow sticker that says TCI, and it's also stamped in... if there is ever a problem with this torque converter, or i get the money, i'm gettin a superstreetfighter from TCI for a little higher stall to help launches even more... i, as well as others, won't buy a yank because of this slander, it's just not right... maybe someone should notify TCI? i think yank should suffer conscequences for their misconduct... but, thats my opinion... |
#22
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Let's see. I worked for a dealer. I was the shop foreman. I own my on shop. I build and race cars for a living. I have a college degree, so I'd say I'm pretty qualified along with having several of them cut open for inspect.
Pretty impressive credentials but you're still evading the question, what do you mean when you say "grenaded"? A grenade is an explosive device. If the transmissions in question didn't explode how did they fail? How did the B&M shift kits cause the damage? Blaming a trans failure on a shift kit is ludicrous. Let's hear details not generalizations. Still waiting for the statistics backing your claim that TCI outsells B&M. There's plenty of proof. b&m failure after failure. Details, what were the failures? With all your stated expertise you should be willing to give detailed analysis of the failures. Just look them up on this site alone. That's your "proof"? Mosey over to the other Mopar message boards and see what they say about TCI. But, silly me, I forgot, only anti B&M anecdotal experiences are valid. They dont have a quality product that holds up.Not there converter,shifters or trans. My experience has been the exact opposite, 35+ years and hundreds of performance 727 Torqueflights built and I've been quite happy with B&M products. Your ticked cause you like them. So like them. I dont care what you like, it's your choice do as you please. You'll notice that I neither deify nor condemn any product because, as I said earlier, any mass production facility will turn out a lemon and an orange now and then. I've used products from B&M, Fairbanks, Superior, TCI, Transgo, Level 10 and find them to all work equally well. |
#23
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...................and my gas prices are 145 for reg - 135 for D !!
......Weather?.................Temp outside is 72 degrees Hay JK....what do you think of that bolt-together converter? |
#24
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Hey this is getting interesting, John Kunkel and dwc43 are two of the most knowledgeable people who post here. I threw dwc43s towel out of the ring and want this to continue in the hopes of learning something.
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#25
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Mr. Fiberglass, the gas here is $2.05 for high test and the temp is 103*. Highs will be close to 110* this month.
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#26
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Everybody has a story, let me tell you one.
Back in '67 I was building my first strip-only car. At that time I would have been more likely to attempt open heart surgery than tearing into an automatic transmission. Back then, Art Carr was the recognized leader in race Torqueflights but my local speed shop was a B&M dealer (and could save me some big bucks) so I scrounged up a '65 727 core and had them send it to B&M for the full race Hemi manual shift treatment. After 40-50 runs, I went to put it in gear and NOTHING!!, no forward, no reverse, nothing. At that time, B&M had a guarantee to the original owner, $100 to overhaul any race trans so I sent it back to them. A few days later the speed shop called to find out what had made the unit quit and they informed us that the input shaft (an original Mopar part) had snapped off clean at the drum. They overhauled it and sent it back with a brand new Hemi input shaft (purple dye). After reinstalling it, I got another 30-40 runs and it quit again, no forward, no reverse. I twisted the input shaft and felt some resistance so I was pretty sure it hadn't snapped again. The $100 (plus freight) every few months wasn't appealing to me so I decided to tear into it myself, what the hell, if I couldn't fix it, I'd send it to B&M. After complete teardown I discovered the pump drive tangs had sheared (another factory Mopar part). After reassembling it with new pump rotors, the trans performed flawlessly (with occasional freshening) for many more years (the last 5 years as a Clutchflite) and the car was now in the low tens. My success with that trans gave me the confidence to build some for others and that's what I did off and on for the next 35 years. During those years I have seen just about every component in the 727 fail, both factory and aftermarket and I wouldn't think of assigning blame for failure without a thorough investigation of possible contributing factors. Why an I telling this story? To illustrate the process of attaching blame. After the first two failures of the B&M unit in my story, some people would have just given up on the product name and would have gone around badmouthing them to everyone who would listen. (Sound familiar?) But the FACT is that neither failure was of a B&M part, but because the decal on the side said B&M, some would attach the blame to them. I am suspicious of those type of individuals and will challenge them to support their allegations with hard facts. They hardly ever respond with anything other than more baseless accusations and ranting. |
#27
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Aside from any baseless accusations and or rantings. From what I have gathered from talking to friends and other racers, B & M long ago morphed from a small company that made quality products into a large high volume Corporation that pumps out "product" for the mass market. My personal experience is with their "shift reprograming kits" and their shifters. I could never make one of their shift kits work (I have since used another brand w/ exceptional results) Their shifters? their cables seem to be more suited to use on a bicycle than an automotive application They seize up just from under car heat. I know back in the good old days they made great convertors (like "J" convertors) they were pioneers in their day. I don't think they make such great stuff at this point in time. Just My $.02
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#28
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Not only are b&m cables poor quality there shifters are no good either. The last one I tried to fix for a friend of mine has a pawl and a gate with a notch at the end of it. They are both made out of thin metal and wore the edges down where they catch. You could find 1st and reverse easy enough, but it would not ratchet at all. Might get second some times. IF you were unlucky it went from second to nuetral or did not shift at all. They dont have any quality anymore. My friend wont buy there junk anymore either.
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#29
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The B&M reprogramming kit is labeled Transpack.
Take my challenge, purchase a Transpack, a TransGo TF-2, a TCI and a Superior kit, have someone open the packages and pour the contents out on the floor and then toss the packages. I bet you won't be able to pick them out by brand. Why? Because every one of them is a clone of TransGo, the pioneer of reprogramming kits. Stack the individual components side by side and you'll see that most are identical. Anyone who has worked with these kits knows how ludicrous it is to badmouth one and glorify another. If the kit doesn't work, blame the installer or the peripherals. It never ceases to amaze me that people install cable shifters with the cables next to a heat source and then cuss the manufacturer for making "junk" when the cable melts and the shifter siezes. If you stick your finger into a flame and the finger gets burned, don't blame the finger, blame the one who stuck it there. |
#30
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DAMN gas prices.....they went UP to 1.659 for this weekend !!
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