Ross pistons ..

[viking]

Are they any good !?

[451Mopar]

Yes. They are light weight and strong forged pistons.

[Mister Fiberglass]

aren't all piston machiners basicly the same? who offers the best service? selection? IN stock selection ? quantity discounts ? and regular pricing?

[Kevin Garceau]

pistons very just like any other part from manufacturer to manufacturer. I have Ross in mine. Although any quality piston from any manufacturer will be good. Lots of piston choices available, just depends on what you want to do.

[Mister Fiberglass]

how about the other Q's ........ KG ?

[Kevin Garceau]

Mister Fiberglass.... I would got to a local parts guy, engine shop and see what they recommend and what they can get. They usually have a brand of choice or several for that matter. They can get you something for your combo and can usually have better results getting answers to problems you may not get an answer to.
Ross are good
SRP are pretty good and inexpensive for a quality piston
JE are really good
TRW's are pretty heavy but for a street vehicle they will be fine.

All of them have good service. But if you go through someone local you will be better off in my opinion.

[Mister Fiberglass]

KG - I was talking more like the diff between the machiners like Ross, Probe, Diamond etc.

[viking]

Thanks for the input fella's !

[Scott Brown]

Doc,

The Ross is probably the best on coverage, they offer more shelf configurations than most. Their quality is very good, and their prices are good. A very good value overall. Diamond makes a nice piston, but they tend to be a bit heavier than a Ross. If you want the best machining, the lightest weight and most power, buy a CP. They are definitely more expensive, but they are the highest quality available. You definitely get what you pay for. You can compare some pricing and weights on my web page, http://www.straightline-perf.com/PISTONS.htm . IF you let us run with a custom CP, the end result is second to none.

Scott

[Mr.Sixpack]

I have used Ross in several engines with good results.
Now I use CP in my Super Stock engine and are verry happy with them.

[viking]

I have used Ross in several engines with good results.
Now I use CP in my Super Stock engine and are verry happy with them.

Ross against CP ; Better ,worse or about equal ??

[Scott Brown]

CP by far. No one else is in the same league.

[viking]

CP by far. No one else is in the same league.

and is that for street or track aplications !?

[Scott Brown]

Street or race, high quality and and attention to detail are the same. That is where CP excels, but at a higher cost. Whether or not you can justify the increased cost for your application is up to you.

[Mister Fiberglass]

Hay Scott and KG.....the Q's still stand...???

[Scott Brown]

Originally posted by Mister Fiberglass
aren't all piston machiners basicly the same? who offers the best service? selection? IN stock selection ? quantity discounts ? and regular pricing?

In order:
1)No, they are not all the same. A Chevy Malibu is not the same as a Cadillac, which is not the same as a Mercedes for example. Each has their own levels of features, for corresponding prices.
2)Ross offers great turnaround time (2wks), CP the best design service and (2-3wks)
3) Ross has the best Mopar coverage for shelf items. Any of them will build whatever you want but it will take longer (2-4wks) and be more expensive.
4)quantity discounts- how many are you looking to buy?
5) regular pricing- Ross has the best bang for the buck in my opinion, and again, very good coverage.

I hope that covered it for you Doc.

Scott

[Mister Fiberglass]

Hay Scott....forgive my seemingly real basic Q's concerning this topic BUT I really don't understand the potential diffs.........

As far as machining specs - does this mean that CP is dead-on and Ross, Probe or Diamond are +/- .005 ??? Or is it a finish quality diff ....??? Forgive the Q's here - I have not buillt a motor with a motor with these type of pistons before(although I do have a set of Probes here that I might use) - how do you rate them?

Quantity?.....what do they consider quantity? 3 sets of the same identical piston?

Do any of these places offer a stock stroke 400 +30 with a higher CD ......... that will fit with a cast crank that will zero balance without alot of work and NOT using that offset dampner and converter? what is the weight diff in the stock cast piston and a machined forged one?

[Mr.Sixpack]

As I said I use CP now, and thats not becourse Ross is bad, they are good.
But good is not good enough for me, I want the absolutly best pistons for my aplication.

I think CP will help me take the Swedish record in Super Stock this year.

If you are going to build a street enginge I think you can use any of the big brands without any problems.
Ross, Venolia, SRP or even KB hypo pistons(I would not use them)

It's up to you wallet have much you can spend.

Good luck with your aplication.

Joakim

[dwc43]

[i]Originally posted by Mr.Sixpack even KB hypo pistons(I would not use them)
Joakim

There's nothing wrong with KB's. Weve run them for years and won Championships with them in dirt cars and they see more stress and strain in a dirt track engine than they will ever see in a drag engine. It's all in the prep work, every time.

[jelsr]

As I understand it there are about 5 or 6 forging companies in the US, TRW and Alcoa being a couple of them. Most piston mfg's buy the forgings and then do their own machine work. Some Nascar teams use JE's and they are as picky as they come.

[Mr.Sixpack]

Yes your totaly right guy's, it all comes down to how you prep everything.
But I was meaning for a normal guy without his own machine shop and expensive tools and in some cases lack the knowhow is better to use the foolproof parts so you don't has to think about clearence and just let the machine shop do the thinking.

I think you can win with any pistons around even old stock cast pistons, but it is as dwc43 says, it all comes down to how you prep you entire engine.

Joakim

[spanner]

How about the probe pistons, I here they are light and reasonable priced? Anyone know wight and price?I am looking for the lightest pistons for my 408.

[Mister Fiberglass]

Originally posted by Mr.Sixpack



But good is not good enough for me, I want the absolutly best pistons for my aplication.

OK then.....what about the CP is better than the rest?

And I heard that there were 2 or 3 forging companies that offer blanks..........are there any ones that are better than the others?

[Scott Brown]

While it's true that there are only a few forging companies, some of the piston companies own their own tooling, so they have proprietary forgings. The CP forgings are very close to near net, closer than many others. As a result the piston is lighter without having to do internal milling or other lightening operations. #2) the tolerances are held to a much tighter spec. The Cp's have far flatter ring grooves than many others. Flatter ring grooves= better sealing= more power. Another example of holding tolerance is weight variation. It is not uncommon to see 3 or 4 grams variation between pistons in a custom set of Ross. I've seen other brands that were 5-8. The set of CP's in my 451 were less than half of a gram out for all eight pistons. Which pistons do you think are held to tighter tolerance? #3) weight! I have done some pistons through CP that wer over 100 grams lighter per piston (!) than similar pistons for the same application from other manufacturers.


Scott

[ehostler]

Originally posted by dwc43
There's nothing wrong with KB's. Weve run them for years and won Championships with them in dirt cars and they see more stress and strain in a dirt track engine than they will ever see in a drag engine. It's all in the prep work, every time.

Due to the thin face, the KB pistons are not very forgiving when it comes to pre-detonation. If your timing is off or you get a bad tank of gas, you are going to have pre-detonation. It won't take much of that to punch a hole into the face of a KB.

[Mister Fiberglass]

S - tolerances such as weight?....that I can live with and deal with at the balancer BUT the ring groove - now that is a bummer !! HELL - I will balance those P's myself - the last set I did was within a tenth !!

100 grams lighter than another machined piston? Is that a "safe" piston on the street?

e - I have SEEN two 440's with those KB pistons in them.....with the WHOLE top of the piston blown off.

I would NEVER run those in anything.

[Scott Brown]

Doc,

It's not the weight difference I'm conerned about in itself. The question is where is it? Is the variance in the skirt diameters? the ring grooves? That 3-8 grams is somewhere in the piston which is supposed to be identical from one to the next, but it's not! The weight can easily be adjusted to balance them, you are missing the point.

QUOTE: 100 grams lighter than another machined piston? Is that a "safe" piston on the street?
That particular piston was designed specifically for street use and is running fine.

Scott

[Mister Fiberglass]

Scott - From what little work I have done with P's in the past.......the weight diff that I have seen and heard about is in the pin bosses(lower), the structure of those bosses and the heads of the pistons. 3 to 4 grams? ....now that is not that much --- HELL - I have heard of balancers that only do a job "to that" !! ....is that right ? of course NOT !!

.....and I have heard of a OEM balance that was over 50 grams off !!

A safe piston?.........that will see some detonation from time to time....bad gas or maybe towing a trailer. How about an RV application?.....such as a motorhome ??

OR should someone just stick with a heavy TRW or a cast piston?

[dwc43]

Originally posted by ehostler


Due to the thin face, the KB pistons are not very forgiving when it comes to pre-detonation. If your timing is off or you get a bad tank of gas, you are going to have pre-detonation. It won't take much of that to punch a hole into the face of a KB.

We are using them ion claimer race engines to keep cost down. They are only used with race gas so there shoulf not be any bad tanks. As for timming or a/f if you mess it up it's your fault not mine you know.

[dwc43]

Originally posted by Mister Fiberglass
[

e - I have SEEN two 440's with those KB pistons in them.....with the WHOLE top of the piston blown off.

I would NEVER run those in anything. [/B]

The reason the tops were poped off is because the were not prepped right. The KB needs a larger top ring gap than most and it it's not there they can pop the top off of them. I have one dirt track engine with a 5 year old set of KB's in it. Never scored and no signs of detination on them or I would never have reused them. Very much within specs. Great pistons if you do your prep work.