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  #1  
Old 11-27-2000, 09:57 PM
Steve R Steve R is offline
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Here's a link to one of te stories:
http://biz.yahoo.com/apf/001127/daimlerchr_2.html

Maybe there's hope yet?
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  #2  
Old 11-27-2000, 10:40 PM
Gary Gary is offline
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I'm not quite ready to latch on to this as a good thing for Chrysler. Mr. KK tried this back when they were having financial difficulties, and his intent was to break up and sell off the profitable parts of the company. Though I would love to see a thriving, independent Chrysler, I don't trust him at all.
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  #3  
Old 11-28-2000, 05:41 AM
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It think it's too late but I keep hoping
It would be very nice to see Chrysler Corp independent again. They need help, not a take over!

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  #4  
Old 11-28-2000, 08:44 AM
montrose ram montrose ram is offline
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In a news release Schrempp was "appologizing"--yeah, right--for a statement he made(to Financial Times) admitting that he lied about the takeover being a "Merger" to win support of the Chrysler shareholders--of which Mr. Kirkorian being one of (or THE) prime holders. Thats why Kirkorian is pissed and sueing. But, as Gary has said, it may the pot calling the kettle black, in this case! All the players in this are not seen, most likely, and maybe the law suit will at least throw a spot light on, what appears to be, some very shady dealings from Stuttgart!

[This message has been edited by montrose ram (edited November 28, 2000).]
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  #5  
Old 11-29-2000, 11:12 AM
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I had no problem with Daimler merging with Chrysler, but it appears more and more like a hostile takeover, with Chrysler management being shoved in the streets, and Daimler raiding Chrysler's bank accounts. A lot of people depend on Chrysler for their living, and the folks in Stuttgart should not be allowed to destroy Chrysler. I do feel the Chrysler stockholders were deceived, I don't think any of them wanted to see a strong, healthy car company, reduced to the weak stock price, no new models, car company we have now. And yes, I am one of many who is EXTREMELY angry over the cancellation of the Charger and 300H, it looks like Daimler is slowly killing off Chrysler, model by model, by not allowing them to retool, then throwing up their hands saying no one wants them.I never thought I'd ever been on Kirkorian's side, but if anything can stop the slow , willful, destruction of Chrysler by Daimler, I'm all for it. This is no Merger of Equals, it's a hostile takeover and destruction of Chrysler. I hope Kirkorian wins. He better be quick though, before more cash is siphoned off in more buying sprees.
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  #6  
Old 11-29-2000, 04:17 PM
Maxwedge Maxwedge is offline
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Stooga.
One of the main reason that The germans came over was becasue they DIDNT want those models canned, as per Jim Holdens plan to save money by scrapping them. As of now the only cars officially scrapped are the Giant SUV and the 300N convertable and maybe the new style Jeep.
I too dont like the takeover. If it was a merger you would see AMerican Chrysler execs in contention for the Board and Chairman, but they are second class citizens in there own company. An American(Canadians too) will never sit at the Helm of the board. Chrysler makes 3/4ths of the money DC pulls in...Chrysler should be in control not some soft squishy luxo boat mercedes manufacturer.
and as far as the Charger. 2 things are gonna happen. RWD LHS sedans(already tooling up for) and 353 Hemi(that they are already making)...it would be hard to imagine NOT seeing these two things being put together.. The CHarger (as well as the germans) are coming.
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  #7  
Old 11-29-2000, 10:01 PM
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Let us hope
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  #8  
Old 11-30-2000, 01:47 AM
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Max, I only hope you are right. The things I have read at Car-Truck.com and elsewhere, gives me the impression that Chrysler Corp. is actually of very little importance to the people at Daimler. Last I had heard, the Charger as well as the other's mentioned were still cancelled. If I am wrong, believe me, that would make me happy in this case. I was looking forward to a 2004 or so release date on the Charger, or similar, RWD Mopar vehicle. I am going to buy Mopar as long as I possibly can, All they have to do is give me product to purchase. I'm just hoping things settle down, but until people can see that Daimler is putting some money and effort back into Chrysler, instead of just wringing out as much as they can from pre merger Mopar plans and profits, lots of folks are going to be nervous. I can't buy a Charger, 300 or anything, if they don't even build it.
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  #9  
Old 12-12-2000, 08:05 PM
novicius novicius is offline
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Woof, been awhile since I've posted!

Personally, I'd rather take a chance with Kerkorkian at the helm than Jurgen (not that he'll be in charge much longer if DCX doesn't start rebounding)...

- novicius -
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  #10  
Old 12-12-2000, 08:38 PM
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The latest dictate from Stuttgart is that Chrysler and Mitsubishi will join forces and use common platforms. Chrysler will also lose responsibility of technical development. That sounds like most engineering responsibility will go to Germany.

Mercedes will take over the luxury line while Chrysler will be entry level. Dodge will be the truck line.

I can hardly wait...a Mitsubishi body with a drivetrain designed in Germany, bearing a Chrysler nameplate. No Mopar, no more.

Like the name of the old Mopar racer...color me gone!
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  #11  
Old 12-13-2000, 04:51 AM
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At this point, there is very little chance that Chrysler, as we know/knew it, will survive.

Either the f***ing Germans will screw it over or the lawsuits will cost DC so much to fight that they will tear the company apart, to recoup costs.

If the lawsuits actually win and the Germans release Chrysler, there will be nothing left to put back together.

It was a good ride, but thanks to the Germans, it is over.

She was a great company and it will be sad to see her go. Now, who is going to pick up the parts division, so that we can continue the pursuit of the old MOPAR hobby??


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  #12  
Old 12-13-2000, 05:04 AM
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I have been folowing this deal pretty closely for the last couple weeks. I'm kinda of the opinion that if Chrysler dies, it will be because of Kerkorian and his lawsuit. Lost in the claims that Chrysler is losing money is the fact that they will still post a 2 Billion dollar profit for the year. I realize that is peanuts, but profit it is. It appears to me that Kerkorian is just trying to cover his own ass. I don't like the way the "merger" has gone, but I knew what was going to happen. It seems odd that a high powered financial wizard like Kerkorian couldn't. Maybe he doesn't read the papers? As far as Daimler gutting out Ma Mopar, it is sad, but no different than when Chrysler bought up AMC just to get Jeep, is it? Oh yeah, Kerkorian wasn't mad about this deal when he got a huge payoff for his vote to merge. Dennis
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  #13  
Old 12-13-2000, 07:40 AM
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As a long-time Mopar fanatic, as a DCX stockholder, and as a business man with a degree in Business Mgmt, I am concerned about the rhetoric among Mopar people about the merger of Daimler and Chrysler. Be it a merger, a buy-out, an alliance or whatever, the fact is that this partnership between the two auto manufacturers was necessary for the survival of both. Not too many years ago, an auto manufacturer could survive in the world by being No. 3 in North America as Chrysler was. But times have changed. Like it or not, we are moving quickly toward a global economy and now an auto manufacturer, in order to survive, must be among the largest six or eight (approx.) in the world. Chrysler had to find a global partner. GM and Ford were already well positioned globally. Daimler-Benz was the most logical choice with almost no product overlap, market coverage everywhere Chrysler wasn't, and one of the most respected names in automobiles. Since then, the new DaimlerChrysler partnership has rounded out their new global positioning by purchasing Mitsubishi and a good part of Hyundai/Kia. They are now a global automotive manufacturer that many others are going to be envious of in the years ahead. Their product line now covers everything from Mini-cars (Smart), to bread-and-butter cars and pickups (Dodge), to upscale (Chrysler), to luxury (Mercedes), to heavy trucks (Freightliner, Sterling, Western Star, Thomas-Built, American LaFrance, Mercedes-Benz), and every automotive niche in-between (Detroit Diesel, Caterpillar alliance, etc.). It is the "perfect" automotive alliance if only people will give them the benefit of the doubt long enough for them to work out the kinks that accompanies any merger of this size. Instead, I hear people blaming the merger for everything and anything that goes wrong. The fact is that Chrysler has seen many rough times in the past without Daimler to blame it on. The axing of Plymouth had nothing to do with Daimler. The re-structuring of the Chrysler dealerships in Germany will actually result in higher sales of the Chrysler brand in the future because they will be sold by Mercedes dealers, under a separate roof, but on the same lot. I believe the future products of the Chrysler Group will include RWD cars, thanks to Daimlers' influence. Sure, there are things about the merger that I don't like. I don't like Schrempp. I think he is a business genius but a social idiot. I think they should have tried harder to keep some of the top managers such as Bob Lutz and Tom Gale. If Kerkorian wins his lawsuit and DC is forced to break up, Chrysler will either be squeezed out of the market eventually by the global players or it will be absorbed by someone else such as Toyota; and Toyota will be interested only in the manufacturing plants of the Chrysler Group. Mopar would go away and Toyotas will be produced in Dodge City. Believe me, as Mopar fans we should support the newly formed DaimlerChrysler. It is Mopar brands' only assurance of survival into the future.
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  #14  
Old 12-13-2000, 09:15 AM
montrose ram montrose ram is offline
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I'd rather there was no Chrysler Corp. than to see her bones thrown out to the global dogs like Shrimp and Co. or Toykohama!! You call that survival? We all know Germans did'nt axe Plymouth. We all know there are harsh business realities not everybody'll like. GM just axed Oldsmoblie-on her 100th aniversary yet. Yeah, that's cold, is'nt it? This thing, this "merger", is getting off to a bad start because of lies, deception, coruption and ineptness. Not because of anything anybody on this board has thought or said or done! Our rehtoric was just fine tii the sh#t hit the fan! None of us has a crystal ball. We dont know what options Chrysler could have had down the road if Daimler had'nt shouldered it's way into the party. Personally, I hope they get bounced out! Right on their big, fat, collective German a$$s!!
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  #15  
Old 12-13-2000, 08:09 PM
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dschumers - Read those news articles again... Everyone that I have read is projecting a 2B loss at the end of the next FY, not a 2B profit.

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  #16  
Old 12-13-2000, 08:59 PM
Maxwedge Maxwedge is offline
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Jergans head will roll and Dieter Zetach(sp) will probably become the new head of DC..If that happens..
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  #17  
Old 12-13-2000, 10:39 PM
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Attsr, my friend, I must respectfully differ with your opinion.

I too am a long-time Mopar fan, in fact I was probably a Mopar fan before 90% of the people who post here were even born. While years don’t necessarily make anyone an expert, they do make them passionate about things which they have chosen to enjoy in life. As a concession to an old guy, please bear with me as I relate the reasons I became a Mopar fan, and why I have continued to be one for these many decades.

I first became aware of cars as something more than transportation when one winter day my Grandfather drove home in a beautiful 1948 New Yorker, Highlander 4-door. It replaced his tired, breakdown-prone ’38 Ford. It was the first new car I can remember anyone in the family buying, and don’t ask me why, but I loved riding in that Chrysler, and I loved being seen in it. The Mopar seeds were planted.

The years went by, and because of the reliability of Granddad’s New Yorker, my father bought a ’51 Plymouth and my uncles bought a ’53 Dodge and ’55 Dodge. The Mopar seeds were sprouting.

In 1954, I got my first car…a ’41 Chevy 2-door sedan. It was a low-mileage, clean, sporty-looking car for the time, and while it wasn’t a Chrysler, it was pretty special for a 13 year old kid. I’ll never regret getting that Chevy, since I became a knowledgeable mechanic because of it. That Chevy was Christine in reverse. Instead of rebuilding itself after being destroyed, it destroyed itself after being rebuilt! While I enjoyed working on cars, I didn’t like having to fix them on a daily basis.

A year later, the troublesome Chevy was replaced by a gorgeous ’48 Plymouth 2-door sedan. The Mopar seeds were now sprouted and in full bloom.

Cars became my passion! I lived and breathed everything about cars. I studied them, worked on them, raced them, customized them, restored them and drove as much as by allowance and meager earnings would permit. I especially became a fan of Chrysler products because they were so well built and had a special, indescribable aura about them. My ’48 Plymouth was the focus of everything I did. I Had become more than an enthusiast…I was in love with Mopars!

Now we come to your dissertation.

As the holder of a business degree, you are looking at “the merger” in purely business terms. You are not looking at it with your heart, yet the love of the automobile is exactly that…an affair of the heart. It’s not a nameplate attached to a piece of sheet metal, nor is it the number of units sold during a quarter. It’s that indescribable passion that makes you lie on your back on hard concrete while you wipe the road dust off the frame, or to polish that stainless moulding again and again and again, though it was perfect before you started. It’s the reason you park in the back of the Albertsons lot to keep someone from putting a ding in your door. It’s the chill that climbs your spine when you hear the unique note of a gear-reduction starter transform into the ground-shaking rumble of a 440. It’s the smile on your face when you recognize the sound of a 850 cfm Thermoquad, under full throttle, feeding the old Polara in that cop movie. It’s the feeling you get when you pull into the drive-in and the envious stares and thumbs ups tell you that you are not alone in love. Did you ever see, feel, or hear that in a Honda?

DCX has ceased to be a company of passion and passionate people. Decisions are made with computers, not brains and guts. The bean counters are back and the visionaries have been replaced because they dared speak of their cars and their dreams with passion. Future DCX products will not be the result of passion, but will be merely tools of transportation.

Juergen Schrempp has driven a stake into the heart of my passion for his new cars, and if my passion is dead, I don’t care how many Smarts they sell, or where they fit in the global economy. I have no interest in Mercedes when I’m ready for my luxury car. I have less interest in anything from Japan or Korea, whether they are built in Tokyo or Toledo. I want my car designed in North America, built in North America and owned by North Americans. I’m not a globalist, and have no desire to become one. Maybe I’m wrong, but that’s the way it is.

I would rather the Chrysler I’ve known should die and remain a wonderful memory than to have proud nameplates like Dodge and Chrysler glued onto a Hyundai or Mitsubishi, or some Frankenstien model made from parts and pieces of each.

Hyundai and Kia will never design or build anything to match the magic of a slant 6, or a 318, or a Hemi, or a TorqueFlite, nor will Mercedes. They will never hire designers to match the likes of Virgil Exner or Raymond Loewy or Tom Gale, because they want workers, not dreamers and visionaries. They will never have the guts to lead the industry with things like the Forward Look, push-button PowerFlites, TorsionAir suspension, swivel seats, and hundreds of engineering innovations. They will never build a Super Bird, a Roadrunner or a Barracuda. The reason being they have no passion, only data banks, team decisions and arrogant, egotistical managers.

According to the business teachings of today, I am the customer…the focus of all business decisions. They teach that the customer drives business and yet my desires are being ignored in the automotive world, because managers know better what I want.
Cars are not widgets, or frying pans or wrist watches. No one falls in love with a frying pan, yet modern automotive managers refer to the product of their labor as “units”, not cars or automobiles. There is a difference, and the Juergen Schrempps of the world don’t or won’t understand that. Just ask the guys who keep the Studebaker name alive…they know what I mean.

Forgive my rambling, but I hope I’ve been able to explain why I will not support the current DCX position. Because I’m angry, jilted and discouraged, I will probably buy some more stock and join one of the class action lawsuits, because I no longer care if the Chrysler Group survives or not. I’m still in love with Chrysler, b
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  #18  
Old 12-14-2000, 02:56 AM
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Amen, Gary! I could not agree with your eloquently stated points more. I too am a Chrysler shareholder and plan on joining the lawsuits against Schremp and DCX. I voted against this damn deal in the first place and would do so again. My only regret is that I didn't sell off my stock when the primary institutional investors did. They knew this deal would be a disaster and I should have too.

I don't believe that Chrysler is in the piss-poor shape that the Germans would have us believe. They have been playing fast and loose with the accounting figures all along and they seem to have forgotten which pre-merger company was larger, had more sales, more assets and brought in more profit. The daimler half of this association must go.




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Old 12-14-2000, 04:43 AM
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Gary,You missed your calling!!! This should be e-mailed to all of the Chrysler execs.And to that Schremp guy too although he could probably care less.
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  #20  
Old 12-14-2000, 05:04 AM
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Wow.................

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  #21  
Old 12-14-2000, 07:20 AM
attsr attsr is offline
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Gary
I bet you would be surprised at how much you and I are alike. We are close to the same age and have similar backgrounds as it pertains to development of a passion toward Mopars. From my dad's old Slant-6 Valiant, to my brother's Super Bee, to my various assortment of Mopars over the years, I, too, have a deep, abiding love of all things Mopar. I surround myself with Mopar memorabilia. I own approximately 400 die-cast Mopars, a Mopar Lionel Train display, original and reproduction Mopar-related signs on my barn, and dozens of other Mopar automobilia such as coin banks, cigarette lighters, clipboards, pocket knives, belt buckles, etc., etc. So please, do not doubt my passion for Mopar automobiles. Where I differ from you is in the practicality of our positions. I am a realist. The global economy is here to stay. Chrysler could not survive without being a part of it. No auto company, anywhere, will ever produce anything like the Superbird or Cuda again. I certainly don't like everything about the new global economy but I've learned to accept it. I can't do anything about the fact that Chrysler is changing. The rest of the automotive world is changing too. I think that where I differ from you and some of the others here is in the fact that I would rather have DaimlerChrysler in the world than NO Chrysler in the world and I honestly believe that that was the choice we had to make when approving the merger. It's good to hear, though, that there are others out there with such a passion for their Mopars. Let's pledge to keep them rolling no matter what happens!
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Old 12-14-2000, 09:13 AM
montrose ram montrose ram is offline
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At first I thought the "protesters"
in Seattle against the World Trade Organization were kinda wacky...now, I'm not so sure.
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  #23  
Old 12-14-2000, 04:48 PM
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Actually old Kirk has a good shot legally due to the fact that the Nazi did commit FRAUD on the Chrysler stockholders.

I think the Schemp has a little NAZI blood in him because only he duplicated the same mistake as Hilter's Boys.

The Nazi's documented their Superhuman feats which was later used against them. They same thing is happening to DC's Schemp.
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Old 12-14-2000, 05:03 PM
Maxwedge Maxwedge is offline
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Montros.
If Chrysler were bought out by GM would you be this pissed?
and those Anti WTO people were freaks
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  #25  
Old 12-15-2000, 04:37 AM
montrose ram montrose ram is offline
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Probably not, Max, because the dirty dealings would'nt be so obvious. There has always been cross-pollinazation between the Big 3 amongst CEOs. But, YES, I would, if GM tried to pull the same scam! "Hello, good shareholding people of Chrysler Corp. WELCOME to GeneralChrysler!! This Merger of two of the worlds premier Auto companys results in"The Worlds first AND biggest Global company!" And then, Max, as you so often point out the Engineers start to disappear on the Chrysler side and etc., and Chrysler is morphed into a Division of GM-Perhaps taking Oldsmobiles place, heh? Yeah, just as pissed!! But like was said, the Germans make themselves such easy targets. Thier arrogance led them to believe that their Secret code during WW II COULD NOT BE BROKEN!! Well, three Polish guys did just that quite early on in the war but the Allied intellegence duped the Nazis into believing that it had'nt been, indeed, cracked. Hey, it was all on PBS one night last year. Max, I know those "protesters" were "radicals" and you can call them "Freaks" if you want. But there are some ligitimate issues with WTOs agenda. Not the least of which are worker and human rights and a dissenting country's right to legislate it's own business practices without fear of reprisal from the WTO.
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Old 12-15-2000, 07:18 PM
Maxwedge Maxwedge is offline
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Alright Montros
WTO's, and NAFTAS main points
Elimination of Prostitution
Reduction Of Pollution
Elimination of Child Labor
Increasing Minimum wage so people aren't taken advantage of.
And to guide economic policies in places for that don't have any intelligent people running the country..Like the Philiipines that has the Prime interest rate of 23% (ours is 9% or so).
The WTO has little to do with Local laws and almost EVERYTHING to do with Economics and bringing smaller countries into a position to support themselves so we don't have to LOAN them money all the time…Money that WONT EVER be paid back.

Why this helps us
Reduces the amount of Illegal Aliens (From Mexico and CUBA and other countries from entering the US).
If their countries become prosperous, people don't want to leave.
This mass exodus has a very negative effect in the areas that these people go to..rascist tensions tend to build. Like California who has the largest immigrant population and the largest number of hate groups in the US.
It also stabilizes regions. The removal of corruption also reduces the amount of money we have to spend fighting Drugs (aka Mexico) or the BILLION we have given Columbia to fight their civil war. The communist leader rebels are supporting their war effort against the Colombian Government by Selling BILLIONS in drugs to US.
ALSO the more stable the region the LESS likely that we have to send troops.. Which during the Clinton Administration the call of our troops has increased TEN FOLD compared to the 80's. (Granada was the only time in the 80, in the 90s Somalia, the gulf war, Bosnia just to name a few)
The less troops we send out the less Americans die for some stupid dictator. ADVANTAGE for US.
The only people who oppose the WTO are Militia groups who are ignorant of the REAL policies and who see everything as a threat. And also see the WTO as taking away American sovereignty. The other groups are Anarchists who are by nature ANTI AMERICAN. And see Globalization as Americans trying to extend "American Sovereignty over the whole of the World". In other words WTO to them is about America creating an Empire. It's strange that both groups have an opposing view of the same event.
These are two groups I wouldn't want to be associated with, and both are Anti American in my book.
As far as Daimler, the ONLY things I don't like are THE North Americans are 2nd class citizens, The Germans has siphoned off to much money and I question the Integrity of there leadership. They have also managed to divest Chrysler of all its talented Upper Executives.
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  #27  
Old 12-16-2000, 01:28 AM
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Another two thumbs up Gary. Very nice!
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  #28  
Old 12-16-2000, 12:34 PM
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Max--You never cease to amaze me-whats your stance on the Palestian problem? No, just kiddin'! It IS stange how to seemingly opposing forces share a suspicion of the WTO. You could extend that group to include all fundamentalist Christians, as well! They see it as the means by which the anti-christ will rule--first control the food supply and then a One World Govenmment. Not by means of North american imperialism but of Eruopean domination! The WTO headquarters IS in Europe--Switzerland! The same banks that loaned Hitler money! But Althogh as pradoxiccal as it may seem, these days the Right and the Left seem to be almost on the same side when it comes to the WTO--but for different reasons as you stated. I think the goals you state are lofty and good( I did'nt know about the prostitution one--thats gonna be a hard ). There really is'nt a simple solution or one that will appeal to everyone. It's the ever increasing gap between the Haves and the Have-Nots that wil fuel this rebellion against Mega-Money driven interests of the WTO. --IMO
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  #29  
Old 12-18-2000, 04:12 PM
Maxwedge Maxwedge is offline
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Every once in awhile a big mouth like mine is good, but usually its only handy to stick my foot in.!


[This message has been edited by Maxwedge (edited December 18, 2000).]
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  #30  
Old 01-07-2001, 05:41 PM
patrick66 patrick66 is offline
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Gary, I've been preaching (and less articulately on my part, I may add) your point for many months. Also, Montrose, your points on the WTO are on the money, so to speak. Outstanding! Now, will the Daimler ubergruppenfuehrers listen? Probably not, but...
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