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  #1  
Old 06-17-2003, 07:45 PM
CudaRunner CudaRunner is offline
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Default How to adjust hydraulic lifters?

I have a set of Harland Sharp aluminum roller rockers running on hydraulic lifters in a LA SB. I can find no documentation on recommended valve lash or adjustment proceedures for this setup. Can anyone here either tell me how to set this up or point me to some resource that does?
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Old 06-17-2003, 08:02 PM
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Hyd lifters do not require any lash the need a pre load adjust until you cant turn the pushrod with your fingers then turn another 1/2 turn and lock it down. ( Make sure you have the piston @ tdc when you do this)
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Old 06-17-2003, 08:46 PM
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OK, just to make this idiot proof: I turn the crank until a piston is TDC on the compression stroke, then I adjust the two valves on that cylinder. Then I turn the crank till the next cylinder in the firing order is TDC on it's compression stroke and adjust that cylinder's valves. Continue until all eight are done. Is that the proceedure?
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Old 06-17-2003, 08:57 PM
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Yup, that's good
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Old 06-17-2003, 09:51 PM
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Default Here's the TDC-90-90-90 Chart, too...

Position Intake Exhaust
TDC #1 firing set #2 #8
Rotate 90 degree set #1 #4
Rotate 90 degree more, set #8 #3
Rotate 90 degree more, set #4 #6
Rotate 90 degree more, set #3 #5
Rotate 90 degree more, set #6 #7
Rotate 90 degree more, set #5 #2
Rotate 90 degree more, set #7 #1

This is what I used to set the 273 adjustable rocker gear on my 318 just last week. It is hard to find, so I thought I would repost it. Although there is nothing wrong with the firing cylinder method, I always second guess myself when I adjust valves that way.

Dartman
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Old 06-18-2003, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 23T
adjust until you cant turn the pushrod with your fingers
actually, my rhodes lifters say NOT to do it by turning the pushrod. you'll end up bottoming the lifter out, and ruining it.

the rhodes instructions say to do it by trying to move the p-rod up and down (as if in operation), and when you don't feel anymore movement up and down, then go 1/2 turn.

note, if they are brand new and not pumped up, the p-rod will turn, and it'll probably tick for a minute untill the oil psi pumps the lifters up. if they need adjusting after run, just take it 1/4 at a time, unless you can feel them loose or too tight or sumthin.

i've learned that from experimenting with my adjustable rockers for about a month.
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Old 06-18-2003, 11:01 AM
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Default Re: Here's the TDC-90-90-90 Chart, too...

Quote:
Originally posted by The Dartman
Position Intake Exhaust
TDC #1 firing set #2 #8
Rotate 90 degree set #1 #4
Rotate 90 degree more, set #8 #3
Rotate 90 degree more, set #4 #6
Rotate 90 degree more, set #3 #5
Rotate 90 degree more, set #6 #7
Rotate 90 degree more, set #5 #2
Rotate 90 degree more, set #7 #1

This is what I used to set the 273 adjustable rocker gear on my 318 just last week. It is hard to find, so I thought I would repost it. Although there is nothing wrong with the firing cylinder method, I always second guess myself when I adjust valves that way.

Dartman
Is this the same for big block engines as well?
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Old 06-18-2003, 11:03 AM
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Default Re: Re: Here's the TDC-90-90-90 Chart, too...

Quote:
Originally posted by HookVIP


Is this the same for big block engines as well?
Same firing order, so, yes, same, same.
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Old 06-18-2003, 11:06 AM
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Valve Adjustment - Hydraulic Lifters

Although hydraulic lifters shouldnÂ’t require any adjustments during normal service, it is important to
check the lifter pre-load when lifters are installed. Adjust as necessary. Lifter pre-load is the
distance between the retaining snap ring and the push rod seat in the lifter when the lifter is
on the heel of the cam lobe with the valve closed. A number of things can affect lifter
pre-load:

1.Resurfacing the heads and/or block deck

2.Changes in camshaft diameter

3.Changes in push rod length

4.Changes in valve length

5.Changes in rocker arm length or geometry

6.Changes in head gasket thickness

7.Changes in lifter height

8.Valve job

9.Different rocker arm stands or shafts

Be sure and check the valve geometry and use either longer or shorter push rods to correct the geometry.
In some cases a shim under the rocker shaft may be required to maintain correct geometry.

When installing new hydraulic lifters, follow the proper OEM procedures for checking and
adjusting lifter pre-load.

Initial Start-Up

It is important that the engine starts as quickly as possible. Prolonged cranking may damage
the camshaft, lifters and/or followers. Before starting the engine, top off the coolant level
and make sure the ignition timing is properly set. After starting the engine, DO NOT let it
idle. It is essential to run the engine at 1500-2000 RPM for at least 20 minutes. Because the
camshaft and lifters are primarily lubricated bya splash-effect of oil from the crankshaft, any
RPM below 1,500 may result in insufficient lubrication and will not rotate the engine fast
enought to force the lifters to rotate on the camshaft. The rotation allows the lifters to
properly seat against the camshaft during this critical break-in procedure. During the first 20
minutes, carefully monitor oil pressure. If any problems arise, shut down the engine
immediately.

Remember; DO NOT allow the engine to idle. Finally, repeat start-up
procedures beginning with priming the oiling system after the problem has been corrected.



Typically, whenever a bigger valve spring is used, greater precision is required to
maintain reliability. Cleanliness, alignment, clearances, journal surface finishes
and lubrication must all be controlled more closely.

Here are some tips to help maximize performance and longevity when using aluminum alloy camshaft bearings.

Sufficient clearance is necessary in the initial installation. These stronger bearings will not wear in
rapidly to make their own clearance like softer materials. Minimum clearance should be .002" for
stock engines and .003" for high performance.
Optimum clearance range for high performance applications is .003" to .004". Because of the stack up of tolerances on the block, shaft and bearing it is impossible to control clearance to this range in the manufacture of the bearing alone.

Clearances must be measured at installation.

Honing the ID's of cam bearings to increase clearance is not recommended because hone grit may
become embedded in bearing surfaces which will cause shaft wear. Bearing ID's may be reamed,
but the most practical means is to adjust camshaft journal diameters by grinding. Even if not
ground to provide additional clearance, camshaft bearing journals should be polished to a surface
finish of 10 micro-inches RA or better with the camshaft rotating in the same direction it will rotate
in the engine.

Like clearance, alignment is also extremely important especially for high performance applications.
Any block that has needed to have its main bearing bore alignment corrected due to distortion is
likely to have experienced cam bearing bore distortion as well. Adequate clearance will help
compensate for minor misalignment of less than .001". Special cam bearing sets with oversize
outside diameters are available for most engines to allow align boring the
camshaft bearing housing bores in these engines.

Tri-metal bearings are priced higher than the aluminum alloy bearings but offer the added
advantage of a thin electroplated babbitt overlay for improved bearing surface properties in
combination with high strength.

Camshaft Break-In Procedures


Coat the camshaft lobes & distributor gear with an generous amount of cam lube, I like the Torco or Redline

Apply the EP lubricant only to the lifter contact faces - not the bores.


Prime the oiling system using new oil and filter.

Use only oils that meet or exceed the latest API ratings.

Do not use non-detergent oils, they do not have the anti-scuff additives
found in modern detergent oils.

I always add a quart of Power Punch to ensure lubrication.

Start the engine and increase the RPM's to 2000-2200. Operate the engine
for 15-20 minutes at this speed. The higher speeds increase splash
lubrication and decrease nose loading.


Avoid excessive cranking, no start donations and fuel/ignition adjustments.

The break-in procedure must commence as soon as the engine has oil
pressure. If the engine fails to start within 15-30 seconds, it is recommended
to re-apply the EP lubricant to the lobes.
If possible, following break-in, the idle should be adjusted to high
specifications.


Their are many things that can cause a cam to go flat here are a few of the most common.
not following the camshafts manufactures instructions to the letter.

Plenty of break-in lube, at least 15 minutes of engine run in at a minimum of 2000 rpm.
improper valve adjustment during break-in: too tight, should only be 1/4 to 1/2 turn past 0 lash or
1/4 to 1/2 of lifter plunger travel.

Valve train interference: check retainer to guide, rocker arm to retainer, rocker arm slot to
stud, valve to piston, valve spring coil binding or weak spring allowing lifter to bounce on
lobe and a sticky valve in guide.

Not using a fresh high quality oil with a SJ or CD designation.

Not priming the oil system before startup. using priming shaft and drill you should prime
until you get oil up to the rockers, a pain but good insurance.

Last but not least if your having to crank engine over for say 20 seconds or more before it
fires or if your not able to keep running at the required rpm immediately after it fires, cam failure is
likely.

Hope this helps...
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Old 06-18-2003, 03:23 PM
Mills Mills is offline
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Do not tighten the adjusters until you can not rotate to pushrod.

By rotating the pushrod with your fingers (once you are on the base circle of the cam), you will feel a point where there is slight resistance - you are now @ 0 lash. 1/4 to 1/2 turn more is what you want. You want to do this with the lifters with no oil in them.

I just wanted to stress the 'until the pushrod will not rotate'. I gave the basic instructions to my friend, not stressing the slight resistance part. He tightened until he couldn't turn them anymore, which caused the valves to never close.

let's just say when the engine turned over, it did so very smoothly.

I had to rip it all apart, get the oil out of the lifters manually w/ a pushrod (NOT FUN FOR ALL 16), and do it right.

Follow Cuda's procedure......

Mills
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Old 06-18-2003, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1972roadrunner


actually, my rhodes lifters say NOT to do it by turning the pushrod. you'll end up bottoming the lifter out, and ruining it.

the rhodes instructions say to do it by trying to move the p-rod up and down (as if in operation), and when you don't feel anymore movement up and down, then go 1/2 turn.

note, if they are brand new and not pumped up, the p-rod will turn, and it'll probably tick for a minute untill the oil psi pumps the lifters up. if they need adjusting after run, just take it 1/4 at a time, unless you can feel them loose or too tight or sumthin.

i've learned that from experimenting with my adjustable rockers for about a month.
How would rotating the push rod between your thumb and fore finger bottom out a lifter???
That's as dumb as trying to adjust the lifters with no oil in them as some have posted
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Old 06-18-2003, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mills
Do not tighten the adjusters until you can not rotate to pushrod.

You want to do this with the lifters with no oil in them.


Follow Cuda's procedure......

Mills
Do you not soak your lifters in oil over night or pump them up manually before installation and adjustment?

Never tried that method, think I'll stay with my way
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Old 06-18-2003, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 23T


How would rotating the push rod between your thumb and fore finger bottom out a lifter???
That's as dumb as trying to adjust the lifters with no oil in them as some have posted
sometimes they will still rotate when zero lash is obtained, and if someone isn't paying a whole lot of attention, they could end up bottoming the lifter before the pushrod actually stops turning.

also, everybodies hand strength is different, so one person might not be able to turn a pushrod, while another person can turn the same one.

whatever, i'll go by what my rhodes instructions say.
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Old 06-19-2003, 05:07 AM
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ok... if you have a difficult time feeling 0 clearance, here is a surefire way to adjust the lifters, although you are gonna lose a quart or so of oil... all down the sides of the engine (and anything else under the hood). it will also let you know how well your top end is oiling, though.

make your best guess at 0 clearance with the engine off. too loose is better than too tight, but it has to run.

start the engine and let it idle (i assume that you left the valve covers off)

starting at some rememberable point (#1 is good!) slowly loosen the adjuster till you hear valve clatter, if it isnt already clattering.

slowly tighten the adjuster until it is silent, then give it the recommended 1/2 turn. it gets quiet at 0 clearance.

continue on down that bank of cylinders until you have done them all.

repeat the process for the other bank.

once you are done, if you think you might have gotten something too tight, you can go back and repeat the process, first loosening, then tightening the adjustment again. just loosen it till it starts ticking.

DO NOT USE THIS METHOD TO ADJUST SOLID LIFTERS!!!

as i said, it will be messy, but it WILL get the job done.
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Old 06-19-2003, 05:49 AM
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Then there is always the dial indicator method. With new lifters, empty/no oil. Take up all the slack and then turn the adjusting screw/bolt until the dial indicator reads a travel of .060" If you want to know this procedure then do a search. I'm not feeling like repeating myself at 2:42 in the morning.

Creative1 does it the same as I do. After I do the indicator method with new lfters.
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Old 06-19-2003, 10:07 AM
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when i get home i'll have to post a pic... BUT...

sounds good, definently sure-fire, but the adjusters on my 1.6 rockers are on the tip of the rocker (where pushrod is), so it moves REALLY FAST!!

actually, my dad tried doing that, and it shot the alan wrench across the garage. with engine off, he stuck the alan in the adjust and said "let her rip!". i fired it up, he jumped, and the alan was on the floor across the garage...

now, with chevies and fords this'll work, because of where the adjuster is on the fulcrum.
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Old 06-19-2003, 10:13 AM
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The Mustang I had was a solid lifter cam and I did that with the engine running. That was a rocker shaft, same way as Mopar uses. That's how I learned it. It would be a little difficult with the hydrolic lifter and an allen wrench, but I think it'd work. My AMX has the center pivot adjuster same as Chevy.
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Old 06-19-2003, 10:15 PM
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Default Man!

Sure am glad I have a solid cam!
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Old 06-20-2003, 03:29 AM
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you can use a variation of this method to adjust the rockers with solid lifters, but you CAN NOT tighten them till they quiet and then give them 1/2 turn more... that will result in the valves remaining open and either the engine will refuse to run, or you will burn every valve out of it in short order! personally, when adjusting solid lifters, i prefer the engine being off, as i can get a better feel and thus, a better job. solid lifters being out of adjustment also screws with the valve (cam) timing.
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Old 06-20-2003, 02:30 PM
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Hey creative1-

That's the same way that I did it on my ex's 454 (I know GM). It was more than just a little messy, but, it worked perfect and never had a problem doing it that way.
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