Moparchat - Home of MOPAR enthusiasts worldwide!



Go Back   Moparchat - Home of MOPAR enthusiasts worldwide! > Technical Forums > Performance Talk

Click here to search for Mopar cars and parts for sale.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-30-2003, 02:29 AM
FearThe4Doors's Avatar
FearThe4Doors FearThe4Doors is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Tampa, FL
Age: 45
Posts: 774
Default Sidewall Strategy

Ive kinda wondered about this for a while, so i want to see what you guys think about it.

Its obvious that the latest style for wheels and tires is large wheel diameter, and short sidewall tires. However, you still see older muscle cars with 15" wheels and 60 series tires. Slicks too are still massively sidewalled.

is it because:

1) the old muscle car guys are too poor/cheap to buy new larger wheels?

2) do they refuse to conform with that "new fangled crap"?

3) Nothing to do with sidewalls. The big WHEELS are the trend and you must have short tires to go with them so everyones not 4x4ing

4) "Wheel" weighs less than "tire & air", so the more "tire & air", the less rotating mass

5) Sidewall is beneficial in drag cars because when you launch hard, the sidewall flexes some (wrinkle walls?) and absorbs some of the shock, which lets you hook up a little better. And then the tire can expand with the large sidewall giving more of a top end (top fuel slicks)

6) It has nohing to do with any of these, its just whatever is the right look for the era of car

whatcha think?
or add a 7
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-30-2003, 02:53 AM
landyacht67's Avatar
landyacht67 landyacht67 is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: maple ridge bc
Posts: 489
Default

not every car suits 20's just like not every car suits 14's. I personally bought 17's because I liked the look and improved handling. (the tires are low profile because of clearance issues). A lot of people go with taller tires (especially on the rear) though because the bigger sidewall gives better traction off the line. Basically I think all your reasons are partly right
Julian
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-30-2003, 10:27 AM
drag-n-cuda's Avatar
drag-n-cuda drag-n-cuda is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Tully, NY
Age: 57
Posts: 240
Default

No. 5 for us drag racing types.

drag-n
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-30-2003, 01:01 PM
Slant Cecil Slant Cecil is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Florida, land of misery
Posts: 373
Default

#6 for us geezers.

Cecil
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-30-2003, 01:43 PM
FearThe4Doors's Avatar
FearThe4Doors FearThe4Doors is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Tampa, FL
Age: 45
Posts: 774
Default

haha..

I was just wondering because like... if one of you draggers took off your current wheels and put on 17s with 40 series tires then went racing... would you see any performance gain or loss? Is there a technical reason why its like this? It would seem yes, just because of the breakup with cars/tires.. but then at the same time no because lots of new "performance muscle cars" are coming with small tires like the Mustang Cobras, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-30-2003, 01:49 PM
amxauto-x's Avatar
amxauto-x amxauto-x is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wa. state
Posts: 1,821
Default

The new Cobra's are suppose to be handling cars. That is why they have short sidewalls. The taller sidewalls would be better for dragracing, flex, as mentioned, expecialy for a 4-spd and the shock a standard trans/clutch induces to the powertrain. The muscle cars look better with the wheels and tires of their day. I've seen no exceptions.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-30-2003, 03:18 PM
FearThe4Doors's Avatar
FearThe4Doors FearThe4Doors is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Tampa, FL
Age: 45
Posts: 774
Default

Dont get me wrong... i like cars with the period matching wheels too.... but ive seen some nice older cars with 16+" wheels. Elenore for one! Bigger wheels do definatly give certain cars a nice look.. again, i was mostly curious if there was a technical reason for it all. I know low profile tires are better for corners because of less sidewall flex, but why is it true for the opposite - tall tires & dragging. I just guessed on my reason in the first post, that the sidewall "gives" a little. Not a bad guess, eh!?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-30-2003, 03:22 PM
amxauto-x's Avatar
amxauto-x amxauto-x is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wa. state
Posts: 1,821
Default

Not bad, ya did good
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-30-2003, 10:08 PM
23T's Avatar
23T 23T is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Age: 77
Posts: 973
Default

Sidewall hight or lack of there of is totally dependant on the appilacation abn owners choice, and you have done and excellent job presenting your question, I run 14" on the T because I like the stance it gives and the 14" wheels on it are a period type that you cant buy any more. If Ms T ruins a wheel I'll buy a new set just as soon as I get out of jail. LOL
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-01-2003, 03:01 AM
Bryant Fields Bryant Fields is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Duncanville, Alabama
Posts: 107
Default

I'm glad somebody brought this subject up , because me and my son disagree on this stuff. It's always seemed to me that the rap music fans (my kid being heavily influenced by the music himself) keep trying to one up each other and see who can get the tallest wheel on their car. You know, like a status symbol.
Now days I see cars with wheels so tall that they have to raise the car to drive it. Add to that the fact that they're sportin' spoke wheels and it looks like a freakin' bicycle coming down the road !
Hell, I'm still trying to figure out what "dubs" are !!!! ; )
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-01-2003, 09:04 AM
amxauto-x's Avatar
amxauto-x amxauto-x is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wa. state
Posts: 1,821
Default

"dubs"--short for dumbies!!?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-01-2003, 11:24 AM
Blygy Blygy is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: world
Posts: 207
Default

Whispering..pssst.. what's a dub???????


Blygy
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-01-2003, 11:45 AM
amxauto-x's Avatar
amxauto-x amxauto-x is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wa. state
Posts: 1,821
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Blygy
Whispering..pssst.. what's a dub???????


[whispering too:i'm still waiting for that myself]
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-01-2003, 11:48 AM
amxauto-x's Avatar
amxauto-x amxauto-x is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wa. state
Posts: 1,821
Default

dubs? == http://search.yahoo.com/bin/search?p=dub&ei=UTF-8
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-01-2003, 11:59 AM
CrazyMoparGirl's Avatar
CrazyMoparGirl CrazyMoparGirl is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Florida
Age: 46
Posts: 352
Default

For dragging, taller tires also give a longer foot print. A taller tire has more of a "flat spot" on the ground.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-01-2003, 01:42 PM
FearThe4Doors's Avatar
FearThe4Doors FearThe4Doors is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Tampa, FL
Age: 45
Posts: 774
Default

yeah, but a 20" wheel & tire can be taller than a 15" wheel & tire


and "dubs" is slang for "20s"

http://www.dubmagazine.com/
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-01-2003, 01:53 PM
amxauto-x's Avatar
amxauto-x amxauto-x is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wa. state
Posts: 1,821
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by FearThe4Doors

and "dubs" is slang for "20s"
20's what?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-01-2003, 03:09 PM
Mopar_Maniac Mopar_Maniac is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 452
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by amxauto-x
20's what?

20" wheel's...at least that what the kid next door tells me.

I asked him "why are you spending so much money to make your car slower, and handle like crap?"

He say's it's cool.

I guess I can't complain too much. When I was a teen we used to jack the back of our cars up to clear tires.

For the price of 20" wheels, and the tires to fit them, you are looking at more expense than a supercharger set-up. Kid's...what are you gonna do with 'em?

Mopar_Maniac
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-01-2003, 03:42 PM
amxauto-x's Avatar
amxauto-x amxauto-x is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wa. state
Posts: 1,821
Default

I'm old I need to be told 20", wtf-"what the f**k" ect.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-01-2003, 05:20 PM
FearThe4Doors's Avatar
FearThe4Doors FearThe4Doors is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Tampa, FL
Age: 45
Posts: 774
Default

thats ok, dubs are out. You need to be rollin on Jordans! You'd be big pimpin tha blizock!
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 07-01-2003, 05:26 PM
amxauto-x's Avatar
amxauto-x amxauto-x is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wa. state
Posts: 1,821
Default

Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 07-01-2003, 08:22 PM
FearThe4Doors's Avatar
FearThe4Doors FearThe4Doors is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Tampa, FL
Age: 45
Posts: 774
Default

Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 07-01-2003, 09:47 PM
FearThe4Doors's Avatar
FearThe4Doors FearThe4Doors is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Tampa, FL
Age: 45
Posts: 774
Default

old car + big wheels =



Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 07-01-2003, 11:26 PM
Billydelrio Billydelrio is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Del Rio, Texas, USA
Posts: 919
Default Horse & buggy wheels

It won't be long and we will see horses pulling some of them big wheeled things.

Billy
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 07-02-2003, 05:36 AM
moparmotorman's Avatar
moparmotorman moparmotorman is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: brooklyn, ny
Posts: 225
Default

I love 15", wheels that is. you can't drive a car with those super low profile tires ang gigonda wheels in NYC or the five boroughs. i see all the "tuners"[that's a stereo component if you ask me]in the tire shops all the time with bent rims, pinched sidewalls, and generally shitty wheelalignments. while that camaro is a nice lookin car it can't survive the BQE{brooklyn queens expswy}. maybe in CA or Florida but they won't survive in my world, just tryin to keep it real, parlayin with ma peeps, got ma mind on ma money and ma money on ma mind, word, ahhite[don't know how to spell that one dawg].
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 07-02-2003, 12:05 PM
FearThe4Doors's Avatar
FearThe4Doors FearThe4Doors is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Tampa, FL
Age: 45
Posts: 774
Default

aiight

so maybe thats a #7... older cars usually means older people which usually means more practical which means tires with sidewall. And then the opposite for "the other side"
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 07-02-2003, 10:20 PM
Tarrbabe Tarrbabe is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Cumberland Plateau
Posts: 1,972
Exclamation Just a thought!

OK, the tall wheels can be good for canyon carvers, but I read an article lately, someone else must have seen it. They took a Toyota I think and decided to make it quicker. They took everything off this car! Doors, fenders, etc, etc. They went to smaller wheels from the (I think) 17" wheels to 15" because they were way- lighter. Think of what the extra metal weighs! What is the best set-up for your car? Only you can decide.

Just thinking out loud.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 07-02-2003, 11:02 PM
FearThe4Doors's Avatar
FearThe4Doors FearThe4Doors is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Tampa, FL
Age: 45
Posts: 774
Default

haha, yeah.. that was SCC. Pretty funny story!
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 07-02-2003, 11:48 PM
dwc43's Avatar
dwc43 dwc43 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Shelbyville,Tn.
Age: 54
Posts: 23,987
Re: Sidewall Strategy

Quote:
Originally posted by FearThe4Doors
Ive kinda wondered about this for a while, so i want to see what you guys think about it.

Its obvious that the latest style for wheels and tires is large wheel diameter, and short sidewall tires. However, you still see older muscle cars with 15" wheels and 60 series tires. Slicks too are still massively sidewalled.

is it because:

1) the old muscle car guys are too poor/cheap to buy new larger wheels?

2) do they refuse to conform with that "new fangled crap"?

3) Nothing to do with sidewalls. The big WHEELS are the trend and you must have short tires to go with them so everyones not 4x4ing

4) "Wheel" weighs less than "tire & air", so the more "tire & air", the less rotating mass

5) Sidewall is beneficial in drag cars because when you launch hard, the sidewall flexes some (wrinkle walls?) and absorbs some of the shock, which lets you hook up a little better. And then the tire can expand with the large sidewall giving more of a top end (top fuel slicks)

6) It has nohing to do with any of these, its just whatever is the right look for the era of car

whatcha think?
or add a 7
Here's the real answers.
1. Muscle cars have no use for 20's and neither does the new ones.
2. There's nothing to conform to. If it dont work, real car builders dont use it.
3. If you use the proper tires and wheels you want be 4x4ing or paying the price of a blower for rubber and wheels that dont work.
4. 15's weigh a lot less than 20's plus the height plays into the speed equation too as well as handling. It's called reducing unsprung weight. That's just one place that the heavier tires and wheels affect the car.
5. Sidewall is very beneficial not only to drag racing but to handling corners too. The flex of the side wall takes some shock on launch of a drag car and it also increases the contact patch of the tire. As all tires used for handling are radial they no longer grow in stagger with heat or air build up. So now the radials are looked at as a spring. As little as a 1/4 lb. psi can effect the handling. As the same effect as jacking weight around or changing spring rates. Put a car on 4 wheel scales and only adjust air pressure and you will see large changes in static weight on each wheel.
6. It has nothing to do with looks. It has to do with what works. Handling, traction, and speed. You want get it from 20's with 45's on them.


Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 07-03-2003, 03:21 AM
FARGO318 FARGO318 is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Victoria
Posts: 165
Default

I know I'm a little bit late here, but me and the boys used to call joints dubs... am I already behind on slang? Just when I thought I had it all
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mexican Drug War Lacks Clear Strategy Dave 572 Off-Topic Forum 13 12-07-2010 11:58 PM
Can you re-use a tire w/ a cut sidewall? more SweetnLow Ram Truck Chat 6 03-04-2001 11:38 PM
Sidewall cracks in your Bridgestone tires ? HankL Ram Truck Chat 1 10-13-2000 01:14 PM
article on what Tire Sidewall Codes mean HankL Ram Truck Chat 1 09-07-2000 05:38 PM




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
. . . . .