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  #1  
Old 07-10-2003, 06:23 PM
cudajon cudajon is offline
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Unhappy Comp Engineering Slide - a link "report"

Spent the July 4th holiday week end putting on traction bars on my 72 'Cuda. Thought I'd share my experience.

First let me say that now that they are on, I'm impressed with how they feel and will get some times at the strip as soon as I can. That's the good part.

Now remember this is a holiday weekend and I can't just call up CE and complain nor wait for a correction to the kit. I really hate getting kits that are wrong and incomplete.

When I opened the box and started examining the contents I found that they had sent me 2 passenger side spring/shock mounts. The shock attachment is welded to the side of the spring mount so I got out my saw and seperated the shock attaching mount from one side and re-welded it to the other. (Time 2 1/2 hours).

Then I went rummmaging through the parts packages for the shock attachment bolts, nuts, washers, etc. Nope not there. Drive down to a local ACE hardware that seems to have everything. Find Grade 8 bolts, nuts and a steel sleeve to fit over the bolt to keep the nut from squeezing the shock to hard when tightening, need 2 of everything (Time 1 hour - cost $8.00)

I Removed the springs and went down to the crafts shop on base and pushed out the rubber bushings and pressed in the aluminum bushings. Forget trying to do this any other way, I tried some tricks at the house and they just wouldn't budge. Its the rubber in the bushings that bounce back. You need a real heavy hydraulic press to do this. The aluminum bushings press in pretty easy.

Started putting the front pieces together that attach with the spring on the front. Missing 4 nuts that hold a frame clamp on. Travel back down to ACE and find the correct nylon lock nuts. (Time 1 hour - price $3.00)

After that the installation is pretty easy and the results like I said look really nice. I don't feel anyone should try this installation without a nicely equipped shop. I give CE a "D" on this kit.

Cudajon
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  #2  
Old 07-10-2003, 10:21 PM
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ehostler ehostler is offline
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OK, so IF they had included all of the correct parts to install it, how would you rate it?

I watched the bozo's on Horsepower TV install a pair on a brand X car, and they seemed to go on real smooth like and looked greta when completed.
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Old 07-10-2003, 11:38 PM
b-1ken b-1ken is offline
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It's just raw material. What is wrong with you! You expected it to have all the correct pieces?
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Old 07-11-2003, 01:34 AM
bwlizard bwlizard is offline
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I,ve read on this site that traction bars are not any good on Mopars. So I took mine off and installed ss springs. Any comments ?
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Old 07-11-2003, 04:37 AM
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You did the right thing there bw.
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  #6  
Old 07-11-2003, 07:18 AM
cudajon cudajon is offline
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eholster - If it had all the right parts I would have given it a "B". I would like to have seen all the metal anodized or powdercoated.

Bw - Raced a 68 hemi RR in SS for years with SS springs and a pinion snubber. Worked great. But, you have to have a car that is lofty for the snubber to work right. My 'Cuda is low to the ground compared to those old SS's. No room for a pinion snubber which even on my RR would bang against the floor pan (braced really good) on the street. Thought I'd try these.
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Old 07-11-2003, 08:27 AM
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1972roadrunner 1972roadrunner is offline
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cudajon, you have a very nice site! and your cuda is even nicer! really, you did a great job with the interior, and the paint/wheels look good.
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Old 07-11-2003, 12:03 PM
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Question A matter of preference??

I am seeing comments that "traction bars don't work on MOPARS".
I see nothing different on a leaf spring suspension on a Camaro, an early Pford Moosetwang, and a MOPAR to indicate that the newer technology traction bars would not work. [The Cal trac inventor holds NHRA stock records w/ his bars and leaf springs]

SS springs and/or traction bars have one function: Prevent spring wrap up, and the resulting wheel hop and loss of traction.
Pitch rotation moves the CG back on launch, putting the wt on the rear tires for added traction.
I've done considerable work w/ the newer bars such as the Cal tracs and the CE slide a link. The last application I observed was Cal's on a B-body at the MOPAR meet in May. The car was well set up, and had posted several low 1.50 short times..

We have just completed the addition of a set of Cals and single leaf fiberglass springs on a Camaro.. works very well. Not to mention it took some 40# off the wt of the car!!
I am considering a similar setup on my Hemi Belvedere.
A friend is building a 68 Cuda nostalgia SS/AA car. It too, will have the fiberglas/ Cals combo..

Having said all this, does anyone have test results showing why the bars don't work, and the SS springs do??

Back under my rock.....

Flame suit on!!
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  #9  
Old 07-11-2003, 01:03 PM
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while at my college in the shop (auto class--manual trans and driveline), i noticed a few differences between my B-body, and a chevelle malibu which were side by side, rears apart.

on the malibu, the axle was centered on the springs. this allowed terrible wind up, and we added some traction bars, and put an extra leaf on the right side i believe. we also reset the pinion angle to get rid of some vibration.

on my B-body (roadrunner), the axle was actually placed more toward the front of the spring, acting as a built in traction bar. my professor said this is why mopars ruled the drags out of the factory, and only needed a pinion snubber and few other things on a build up, while chevies and fords needed traction bars ect...

i've actually looked for traction bars (dad thinks they look cool -- used to be chevy guy, now loves all old cars), and i couldn't find ANY for my roadrunner. course, i was lookin in summit and jegs and they said not recommended with airshocks...oh well. i only had a little wheel hop, but it was my tires (chevy wheels and firestone crap rubbers)... now i have better tires and wheels (no more adapter...mopar bolt pattern!), and no wheel hop.

traction bars look ok, but i wouldn't put them on my mopar for the simple fact they aren't needed IMHO. to each his own
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  #10  
Old 07-11-2003, 02:41 PM
cudajon cudajon is offline
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Thanx 72runner, its nice that someone actually visits my web site. I need to update all the pix.

To all the rest, I don't have anything against pinion snubbers and SS springs as I said in an earlier post, its just I want my car to sit lower than they allow. Notice I'm running 18" wheels and rubber bands for tires. I was getting spring wind up and wheel hop. Thats why I went to the traction bars. And as several cars that actually compete (as Geezer mentioned) are using them and are setting records with the combo It can't be wrong.

As someeone else said "to each his own".
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  #11  
Old 07-11-2003, 07:12 PM
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There is a VERY big difference between the way that the slide-a-link works and the way that a traction bar works. Traction bars are only good if you want to bend your springs. That is why a good adjustable pinion snubber is better.

The slide-a-link is a poor mans solution to a 4-link suspension. The slide-a-link in addition to a pinion snubber looks like a great setup.
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  #12  
Old 07-11-2003, 07:43 PM
skankweirdall skankweirdall is offline
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Super Stock springs work, but they are old technology. By the way, you shouldn't run a pinion snubber with SS springs either, the snubbers are only needed to help the stock springs act like SS springs.


I had SS springs on all my cars for years. I was having a problem where my car would lift the front end very erratically. Some times a foot some times 4 feet and some times barely 6 inches. It was playing havoc with my reaction times. I got all the Cal Trac stuff, springs, bars, shocks everything. Now my car launches consistently and my reaction times became more predictable as well.


You should not use traction bars, Cal Tracs, or Slide-A-Links with SS springs either. Anything you do to limit the spring action just defeats their design intention.
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  #13  
Old 07-12-2003, 12:38 AM
bwlizard bwlizard is offline
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Great thread ! I'm learning.
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  #14  
Old 07-12-2003, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ehostler
There is a VERY big difference between the way that the slide-a-link works and the way that a traction bar works. Traction bars are only good if you want to bend your springs. That is why a good adjustable pinion snubber is better.

The slide-a-link is a poor mans solution to a 4-link suspension. The slide-a-link in addition to a pinion snubber looks like a great setup.
IMO, with a link or a Cal-trac, the snubber is not needed. The snubber's "duty in life" is to prevent spring windup under accel. The link/Cal-trac performs the same function, only without the shock that a snubber imparts. [I don't think that the high degrees of pinion angle are needed w/ the Cal tracs. They are adjustable, and can prevent excess pinion deflection.]
There is no difference in a traction bar and a Slide/link or Cal trac, IF the bar is of the proper length to put the load at the spring eye, and is properly adjusted up to the pad.
The action of chassis/tire seperation on launch, is wasted time. A near zero seperation is a quicker launch. Along comes the 4 link to make this possible to do. Even the aftermkt chassis books say the leaf spring is a poor choice for a drag suspension, and is usually used to conform to the rules.. IE: stock eliminator, etc.

I'm going w/ the setup Skank is using, for the exact same reasons.. My car will be driveable on the street, and behave at the drags too...
I've learned one thing over the nearly 50 yrs of drag racing: There's ALWAYS a better mousetrap out there! I like trying those ideas to see how they work... keeps me broke and out of the bars!!

We'll see if my theories work once the 528 HEMI gets hold of the 3800# tank, known as my Belvedere!!!

Back under my rock!!
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Old 07-12-2003, 09:38 AM
skankweirdall skankweirdall is offline
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Yes, no snubber with the Cal Tracs either.
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Old 07-12-2003, 12:14 PM
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If you have Super Stock springs, and have a really fast or hard launching car, one thing you might want to think about (and was a Mopar designed suspension item) is the leaf link. It's a lot like the Cal-tracs, but works with SS springs and sits above the rearend going forward. The leaf link was the first attempt at the 4 link suspension but still used the leaf spring as an active part.
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Old 07-12-2003, 12:21 PM
skankweirdall skankweirdall is offline
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If you are going through all this trouble why not just go with a proven design? What's the point of trying to make some oddball system work? Just to be different? Great I guess if that's your thing but if you have the bucks to do it a 4 link is the way to go. I used the Cal Tracs on my car because I didn't want to cut it up. Otherwise it would have been a 4 link.
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Old 07-12-2003, 01:53 PM
cudajon cudajon is offline
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Skank is right you know. The best setup would have been a 4 link.

Eholster said it hisself when he said slide-a-link traction bars are a poor mans 4 link. Or used by someone that doesn't want to cut there car up.

Everybody defending the pinion snubbers are forgetting how high those old SS's where in the air. At that day and time the idea was to get a bunch of body weight shift to the rear to load the tires. The subber was primarily used to keep a proper pinion angle. With todays tires the move is to drop the cars for aerodynamics, thus the popularity of 4-links and there poor boy alternatives.
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Old 07-12-2003, 03:19 PM
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The pinion snubber is used to control axle wind up not control pinion angle.
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Old 07-12-2003, 03:31 PM
b-1ken b-1ken is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by bwlizard
I,ve read on this site that traction bars are not any good on Mopars. So I took mine off and installed ss springs. Any comments ?
Why are you asking? The bottom line is which worked better for you. I, for one, do not think SS springs are better than some device which prevents rear axle rotation.
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Old 07-12-2003, 03:35 PM
skankweirdall skankweirdall is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by dwc43
The pinion snubber is used to control axle wind up not control pinion angle.

Basically two different ways of saying the same thing. The result is the same either way.
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  #22  
Old 07-16-2003, 02:09 AM
bwlizard bwlizard is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by b-1ken

Why are you asking? The bottom line is which worked better for you. I, for one, do not think SS springs are better than some device which prevents rear axle rotation.
I'm asking because I wanted other opinions. You have a problem with that ? I hope not, that's what this site is about. The bottom line is I respect other peoples opinions and experience. BTW with your response I don't really care what you think ! BYE NOW !
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Old 07-16-2003, 10:28 AM
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skankweirdall,
Did you achieve better/ you best 60's with the CalTracs vs. SS springs? You said more consistant, but not quicker.

Thanks,
drag-n
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Old 07-16-2003, 07:50 PM
skankweirdall skankweirdall is offline
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drag-n-cuda, nope, not any quicker just more consistent.
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Old 07-17-2003, 08:08 AM
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skankweirdall,
Do you run floaters? A few people had said something about bind with caltracs or CE slider, but I don't know if it was from personal experience or from "guesstimating".

drag-n
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Old 07-17-2003, 10:57 AM
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We have used the S/S springs for over 30 years,they work very well.My car has a 1.51 average 60ft time,and will hook in a car wash.Pinion snubber is used as well.
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Old 07-17-2003, 08:05 PM
skankweirdall skankweirdall is offline
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drag-n-cuda, no floaters. Since the bars are not directly connected to the axle housing I don't see how that would work. I'll think about it later.
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