Fuel delivery problem HELP!! AGAIN!!

[Frank R]

Dudes, I'm like really starting to get pissed. New 440 has less than 50 miles on it. Anyway, Fired up the car following all the first fire procedures, we're cool there...after breaking the cam in, I am venturing out the neighborhood smiling as I tool around in my Roadrunner. I drove the car around the corner and it stalls and I could not get it started, wasn't getting gas to the carb. So I'm thinking maybe vapor lock sit there whilst the car cools down and it still won't fire. I primed the carb a few times and it started running badly, but I get it home. Went to start the car after getting home same problem, no gas to the carb. I take the new Carter fuel pump out and before I install another new pump I decided to check the pump rod. I stick a tongue depressor through the hole supporting the rod and crank the engine and the rod moved up and down as expected. So I change the pump hook everything up put the end of the fuel line in a can, crank the motor and gas comes spewing out. So I'm thinking everything is cool....drive the car around to the store, get gas, go to the muffler shop, come home park the car. After a few days I decide to cruise around go to start the car and guess what..same damn problem no gas getting to the carb!! what the heck gives??? The pump actuation rod is driven directly from the cam on the 440 (am I correct?) so if it is moving up and down the pump should work right? It seems so darn simple!! I did take some fuel line connected it to the fuel pump inlet stuck the other end into a can of gas cranked it and nothing... (I did this to eliminate gas tank pickup blockage). It is hard to believe I had 2 bad brand new fuel pumps...help me!!!!!!!!!!!PS the first pump was a Carter the second a Holley

[ehostler]

I would just pull the pump off and put a block off plate on the side of the block. Then put an electric pump out back. Problem solved...

[1972roadrunner]

i agree about the pump.

one thing not mentioned, is the filter and sock in the tank. did you check the fuel filter? if yes, is it flowing the correct way? also, how long has the thing sat? original fuel tank? it could be possible that you have rust or something clogging your sock in the fuel tank, and when it doesn't start or run for so long the stuff settles back down...

oh, and another thing. if you know carbs (which i sure as hell don't), maybe there is somthing in the jets or the float is gettin hung up??

just my $.02

good luck!

[Frank R]

I had mentioned earlier that I took some hose connected it to the inlet on the pump and placed the other end in a can of gas. Cranked the motor and got nothing out of the outlet. So in essence I have completely eliminated the tank and the line from the equation. Now the pump should have easily pulled fuel from an open can 2 feet away, shouldn't it of ?? Frank R.

[amxauto-x]

Yes it will. I've done it that way as well to test my new pump this past fall.

[#nineteen]

THings to check that are free

1) check the tank to make sure theres no rust in it
2) check the sock as stated above
3) check the fuel line to make sure it isnt sucking air
4) Check fuel filter in or near carb
5) Check that fuel line isnt near a heat source.
6) remove pump rod and check length...sometimes they wear down and dont pump...

do these first...if all is good, then we will discuss something else

[1972roadrunner]

Originally posted by Frank R
I had mentioned earlier that I took some hose connected it to the inlet on the pump and placed the other end in a can of gas. Cranked the motor and got nothing out of the outlet. So in essence I have completely eliminated the tank and the line from the equation. Now the pump should have easily pulled fuel from an open can 2 feet away, shouldn't it of ?? Frank R.

so put an electric one on it if the mechanical aint suckin shit...

although, IMHO, it wouldn't hurt to check the filters ect. while crankin, the pump isn't working very fast, but as the engine speeds up it starts sucking more, and can pull shit into the filters...when it dies, the shit settles down... it's a vicious cycle...

good luck!

[ehostler]

Did anyone read what he posted??

Originally posted by Frank R
I had mentioned earlier that I took some hose connected it to the inlet on the pump and placed the other end in a can of gas. Cranked the motor and got nothing out of the outlet. So in essence I have completely eliminated the tank and the line from the equation. Now the pump should have easily pulled fuel from an open can 2 feet away, shouldn't it of ?? Frank R.

Sorry, but the pump should have moved that gas. This clearly isn't a problem with the fuel filter. Now on the other hand, he could be sucking crap out of the tank that is damagin the pump, however, I would think that it would still be able to move the fuel.

So, either it is yet another faulty pump or a worn fuel pump push rod.

[bwlizard]

Ehostler's right ! Read the posts before you answer !

[#nineteen]

lol..yeah, time for reeding lessonz....

I agree...the pump could be full of junk, or check he pump shaft..

[jasontlit]

Go get one of those glass fuel filters you can see into. Install it between your fuel line and the inlet side of your fuel pump.

This way you can see if your pump is getting jammed up with debris.

Of course, this isn't a permanent thing, just a quick diagnosis.

[jasontlit]

Oh and if the pump you connected to the gas can wasn't brand new right out of the box, then the problem would still seem to be in your tank.

You posts didn't mention if you know the condition of the inside of your gas tank.

I had a tank in real bad shape once, lots of ugliness came out of it!

[amxauto-x]

Originally posted by jasontlit
Oh and if the pump you connected to the gas can wasn't brand new right out of the box, then the problem would still seem to be in your tank.

He did say he did that with the new pump.

And I did answer him that the new pump should pump fuel out of a gas can 2 feet away. Ya'll must have missed my post also.

[jasontlit]

AMX,

He had already driven the car with the "NEW" pump before trying the gas can trick.

So, yes I did read your post.

Maybe re-read his 1st post.

He "eliminated" the tank after driving it around on the "new" pump. Thus, the tank could still be the problem.

The pump could be clogged from the short driving trip and unable to pull fuel from the clean can.

[23T]

If the tank or the line from the tank is the culprit for sending bs to the fuel pump a pre filter is needed for a check of contamination. Fuel pumps be elec or manual will not stand up when pumpimg grit

Did the car set up any length of time? Was the gas tank empty or low?

[jasontlit]

I'd better correct this now! LOL

He DID test it like AMX mentioned, it worked, THEN drove it around, then it doesn't work later. My point is that the tank is still suspect.

[Frank R]

Well gang, today I pulled the sending unit out of the tank and it was clean as a frickin whistle. The sock was intack although it looks almost black I will get a new one anyway before i put it back in. I was almost hoping it would be plugged so I could fix this problem. I'm not sure what else to do but try a new pump...I like the idea of putting a filter before the pump at least I would know for sure no crap is getting into it. One other thing I did today was remove the plug just below the fuel pump where the fuel pump rod would be inserted, shined a light inside while cranking the motor and I can clearly see the arm being moved up and down so I have verified the rod is doing it's job. Frank R.

[amxauto-x]

But is the rod moving enough? I have no idea how far the rod is suppose to move up and down, but someone here should know. Maybe when you have the pump off next time, put it in the vice and move the arm/lever and listen to it and see if there is a funny sound. Maybe the lever/spring whatever inside is screwed up and the diaphram isn't working properly or is split.

[jasontlit]

Before reconnecting the fuel line to the tank, disconnect it at the pump and give the fuel line a blast with the air compressor.

She might puke something out.

Speaking of fuels lines...possible corrosion? That would explain the tank not being the culprit.

Dude, its like playing Clue.

"It was SGT. Fartgas with the broomhandle!

Wait, no, It was Mr. Mustard with the muffler bearings...

No, it was COL. Doublepumper with the Fyoobulator! HAHA!!"

[lluciano77]

It is probably something in the tank. I would use an electric fuel pump if you have one you can borrow, to eliminate other possibilities. Keep the mechanical pump setup once you fix whatever it is. That way you can put it back together when your done.
I have been running the electric pump setup for years. It sucks. Those things are loud and they don't have as long a service life as the mechanical pumps. They are just one more thing to go wrong.

[1972roadrunner]

Originally posted by lluciano77
I have been running the electric pump setup for years. It sucks. Those things are loud and they don't have as long a service life as the mechanical pumps. They are just one more thing to go wrong.

really? funny you should say sumthin like that. i've had the same electric pump (brand-x i got at a gas station on the way home from kansas city) for about 4 1/2 years now. it still works as well as when i bought it. it wasn't the cheapest, but it was under $40. yes, it's a little noisy, but my engine is a LOT louder so it doesn't bother me. i've seen an electric pump that actually had rubber bits that went behind it to help dampen the noise. that'd be sumthin to try if the noise really got to ya...

oh, one thing i love bout electrics, is if you ever change carbs, or it sits for a long time and the bowls go empty, a few seconds with the ign on and pump runnin, and the bowls fill quickly. oughtta start right up. no cranking, cranking, cranking and waiting for the mechanical to fill the bowls...

another thing, they're MUCH easier to install. generally 2 bolts, and depending 2-4 hose clamps, done... don't have to mess with trying to line up a rod, and bolting the thing to the block at the same time. i had to put a new mechanical on my brothers 440, and i wont ever do it again. if it goes out (old one was weak stocker), we're puttin an electric one in the back, and we'll be done with it.

to each his own. thats what it all boils down to. run what you want/like your own way

[cuda66273]

Hey Frank
Sorry I couldn't spend more time with you on the phone the other day...but those national events are busy...100,000+ people and they all seemed to have a fuel problem of some description.

Let me know if you found the problem.

[beepbeepsrule]

You do need to remove the fuel pump actuator rod from the block and look at it. I have seen the end that rests on the cam wear down in a very short time while breaking in new camshafts.

The ends of the rod are slightly smaller diameter than the middle which rides in the block. The smaller diameter areas at each end should be the exact same length. There is also a slight champher on each end, this should be intact even on a rod that has seen tens of thousands of miles. You can definitely pick out abnormal wear easily.

I believe the rod moves a half of an inch or so, maybe more but a quarter inch worn off the end that runs on the cam would definitely not give the pump lever enough stroke. This wear (if it occurred) would explain most of your anomolies. You can get a new one from the dealer, about $25 I think. Be sure to use a spot of moly lube on the cam end first when reinstalling.


While you have the pump off the car lean against the lever on a bench somewere and listen. It should make a sucking sound on one stroke and a huffing sound on the next. You can also place your finger over the inlet while pushing the lever in and it should try to keep your finger sucked to the fitting, in fact the lever may not want to return, this would indicate an intact diaphragm and a pump in good condition. You should also be able to feel quite a pulse of air from the outlet on a good pump.