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  #1  
Old 08-19-2003, 09:45 PM
HookVIP HookVIP is offline
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Default Roughing it!

Ok I got a 318 has a camshaft in it doesnt sound like its a monster it has roller lifters from the factory..Now it seems to idle ok but when I put it in gear it wants to shake the car apart..Is the camshaft a little bigger then I thought? Do I need a stall? I was thinking around maybe a 3500..Once you are rolling it seems ok except I think this crappy Eddy carb is loading up..The cam is out of my 340 6pack motor that was build about 15 years ago but I lost the X-heads..
Could the carb be part of the problem or is there a need for the stall..
I have the converter that has about 1 to 1 1/2 gap on the ring gear..
Which is supposed to be a higher stall from the factory..
I have a Holley Im gonna put together tonight and try that then Ill put a stall in it...
I do believe the camshaft had a 280H stamped on the back which might not me a thing...
Also when I try the set the timing by light there is not mark..
But I set it by ear and seems to run fine..
I think the engine is an 85 with roller lifters from the factory would this have something to do with it? and if so if a buy another cam and lifters will they fit the the same bores?

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  #2  
Old 08-19-2003, 11:35 PM
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Glen440 Glen440 is offline
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Your running roller lifters on a non roller cam? I'm pretty sure thats not a good thing. You can run normal lifters in the roller block. I'm not sure if there were diff pushrods for the rollers though. The edy carbs are a pain.
If the carb is good you'll know if you need a stall if it bogs out of the hole. Also the bad in gear idle can idicate that but you have to be sure your carb is good, don't use a bigger converter than you need. Also depends on what gear you run.
If the cam isn't lumpy I bet it doesn't need converter, a lil higher than stock would be good.
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  #3  
Old 08-19-2003, 11:41 PM
mtrv8n mtrv8n is offline
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"shake the car apart"

Have you looked at the motor mounts???

Could be they're toast, or someone put solid mounts in.

we need more info to help..timing could be a problem too..
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  #4  
Old 08-19-2003, 11:44 PM
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Mister Fiberglass Mister Fiberglass is offline
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what are the specs on the cam? I will send wheel/tire specs later ...
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  #5  
Old 08-20-2003, 02:12 AM
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fastmopars .inc fastmopars .inc is offline
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you can't find the timing marks because they are hidden by the radiator outlet hose. the water pump and rad in the car are probably different year than that of the motor. look on the opposite side of where you were previously and it should be barely visible.

does it actually idle rough because of the cam? or does the carb just not idle right at all. i think that roller camshafts are hardened for the use of a roller lifter, but if you haven't had problems yet, whose to say it can't work.
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  #6  
Old 08-20-2003, 08:02 AM
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cuda66273 cuda66273 is offline
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Are you serious...your running roller hyd lifters on a 280 flat tappet grind stick??????

Roller cam lobes are ground flat for the trunnion, flat tappet cams have a tapered lobe to rotate the lifter.


That 280 is probably a 238/242 duration at 50 and measure the lift but it's probably a .484.

The H means Hydraulic
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  #7  
Old 08-20-2003, 09:57 AM
HookVIP HookVIP is offline
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Default Hmm

Well the mounts are ok I had a couple sets the examine when installing the motor..It seems to run great soon as you give it some gas..I have about 15 lbs of vacuum..Im thinking its got to be something with the carb.. it also studders when it at crusing speed..Ill try the carb first I guess..
Another quick question..
If the rear end humms while at steady speed but goes away on deceleration and acceleration, Is the gap too big or too small between the ring and pinion?
Its an 8 1/4 with a 3.55 ratio cone style posi out of a 68 dart..

Welp thanks for the help Ill be in touch..
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  #8  
Old 08-20-2003, 02:00 PM
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i wouldnt mess with the converter untill i found out why the engine runs rough... unless it is mismatched to the engine... by that i mean an externally ballanced converter on an internally balanced engine... or vice-versa. if you try changing a bunch of things, and the problem doesnt get corrected but changes, you have no idea what changed it... and no idea what to do next.

i would try to determine if the rough idle problem in gear is ignition or carburation... remove one spark plug wire at a time and see if it changes. if it does, reattatch the wire and go to another cylinder. if it doesnt change, you have found a dead cylinder. then you have to determine if that cylinder is getting spark, and if so, is the plug firing. plugs sometimes work at idle with no load... but fail when a load is put on the engine.

once you have determined that the ignition is or is not the problem, then troubleshoot the carb if needed.

oh... i missed this... if you put a soft camshaft in a roller application, and it is in the process of failing, it could cause similar symptoms... the only cure for which is replacement of the cam and lifters. camshafts should NEVER be used with lifters that have been run with another camshaft, and the lifters that have been run on a cam have to be matched to the lobe they were originally run on. otherwise, failure is an almost certainty.
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84 D250/440/3.54:1 dana 60/16" wheels, 31" tires/A-727trans/3" header mufflers/weighs 5000 lbs/13.22 sec @ 103+ mph.
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  #9  
Old 08-20-2003, 02:16 PM
b-1ken b-1ken is offline
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I'm having a hard time believing what I'm reading here (as do others). You're REALLY running roller lifters on a flat tappet cam? A roller follower requires a MUCH larger cam profile to have the same lift profile as a flat tappet cam. As was suggested, you better pull this thing apart and see if you have hurt anything.
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  #10  
Old 08-21-2003, 12:00 AM
HookVIP HookVIP is offline
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Default OK!

Ok after 2 holley carbs the problem is cured..Runs like a champ..Now I just have to figure out the correct lash for the rear end..I was told that the ring is too far away from the pinion..
Should I use some clay or a gauge to check if the lash is within a certain inch?
It wines when your at a cruise but goes away when you hit the gas or go down hill..
Mind you this motor is just a junker I threw together till I finish the big block..And to get it around to work out all the bugs with the chassis and such so its not a perminent thing, Im not expecting to get 100,000 miles out of it out anything..

As B1 said the profile of the cam did seem larger than the flat tappet..I may even pull the roller lifters and replace them with flat tappets..So it was kind of an experiment seems to work ok..
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  #11  
Old 08-21-2003, 01:07 AM
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cuda66273 cuda66273 is offline
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I call Bull$hit.....

There's no way a roller lifter will fit in a old block.

First off the dog bones won't clear the block, the lifter is trying to shove the cam right though the water pump or the rear of the block, you'll split the lifter bores, break the cam and or lifter trunnions, what push rods did you use and how did you ever get the geometry correct.....and the duration on the cam doesn't even exist.

Are you sure your not referring to roller rocker arms?

I won't even go into the other 86 reasons it won't work.

The big vibration will come when the roller breaks off the lifter gets jammed into the cm breaks it and the crank throw comes up and whacks the cam and you ventilate the block...start over with real facts I don't believe one word of it.

I don't want this to ever happen again and I'll deny it to my death but I actually agree with B-1 Ken on this one.
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  #12  
Old 08-21-2003, 09:05 PM
HookVIP HookVIP is offline
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Default Huh?

What are you talking about? The block came with roller lifters stock..I just stuck the camshaft out of my 340 motor in it..By reading the numbers on the block I do believe it said 85..
Or maybe newer? It seems to run ok but what Im wondering is if I can stick the lifters that came from the 340 cam in the newer style block? Reason being if the roller lifters require a higher profile cam then Im not getting the full potential of the cam correct? So this could be the reason the cam doesnt seem lumpy..
The cam that did come out of the motor seemed to have a longer duration than the 340 camshaft..

Now back to the rear end..I have a dial indicator and I was told the ring should have 8-12 thousands play is this correct?
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  #13  
Old 08-21-2003, 09:15 PM
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Default Re: Huh?

Quote:
Originally posted by HookVIP
What are you talking about? The block came with roller lifters stock..I just stuck the camshaft out of my 340 motor in it..By reading the numbers on the block I do believe it said 85..
Or maybe newer? It seems to run ok but what Im wondering is if I can stick the lifters that came from the 340 cam in the newer style block? Reason being if the roller lifters require a higher profile cam then Im not getting the full potential of the cam correct? So this could be the reason the cam doesnt seem lumpy..
The cam that did come out of the motor seemed to have a longer duration than the 340 camshaft..

Now back to the rear end..I have a dial indicator and I was told the ring should have 8-12 thousands play is this correct?
Cam designed for roller lifters, then you should use only roller lifters. End of lecture.

Cam designed for flat tapet lifters should use only flat tappet lifters. End of lecture.

As far as the rearend endplay or backlash--look in the book. If you don't have a book, go get one. Somebody can answer that soon, but I'm not able to get to the book just now. So if you can wait untill next week I should have the answer. By then you should have a book.

If you want to learn then you have to listen and not just throw these things together.
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  #14  
Old 08-21-2003, 09:26 PM
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Well I'm a firm beliver you can make any thing work for a while heck just look at Ford's ads 90% still on the road, 10% of them suckers make it home LOL
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  #15  
Old 08-21-2003, 10:15 PM
HookVIP HookVIP is offline
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Default Man!

Geez everyone doesnt have to get so bent out of shape..It was an experiment, it worked so what..I didnt ask for a lecture I asked a simple question and everyone wants to act like idiots about it..If you dont know the answer to a question then stay out of the conversation and save space for people that are willing to help instead of trying to make someone seem stupid..
After all thats what this sight is for isnt it?

PS the idiot part isnt intended for those trying to help..
Thanks for everything..
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  #16  
Old 08-21-2003, 10:30 PM
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Default Re: Man!

Quote:
Originally posted by HookVIP
Geez everyone doesnt have to get so bent out of shape..It was an experiment, it worked so what..I didnt ask for a lecture I asked a simple question and everyone wants to act like idiots about it..If you dont know the answer to a question then stay out of the conversation and save space for people that are willing to help instead of trying to make someone seem stupid..
After all thats what this sight is for isnt it?

PS the idiot part isnt intended for those trying to help..
Thanks for everything..
Sounds like you got the engine problem under control and like Tom said by a book they last a long time and all the info is at your finger tips and everyone here does like to joke a little if you ever get a flame job you will be well aware of it and calling people idiots is an open door. Again glad your up and running many happy driving miles
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  #17  
Old 08-24-2003, 12:19 AM
HookVIP HookVIP is offline
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Hmm.. Well I have a book on the vehicle but it doesnt seem to tell you much about lashing the rear end I'll talk to my buddy and see if he has one..I thank you all for the help and am not trying to disrespect anyone..I made a took to adjust it without taking out the axels.. The local tool truck guy didnt have a clue what I was talking about..I will eventually upgrade to a 8 3/4 I have access to a couple punkins I just have to hunt for a A-body houseing..
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