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Old 08-20-2003, 10:50 AM
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Default Oil leak and Transmission Inspection cover problem...

I have an oil leak that I thought was the result of the rear seal on the oil pan being bad. After replacing the pan gasket last night, I fired it up and almost immediatly had about a 4 inch wide puddle of oil. This seemed worse than it was before I put the pan gasket on!

Is there any place on the back of a small block that could cause a oil leak like this? I recently changed the cam, and I was very careful not to dislodge the frost plug in back of the cam (the oil leak was present before the cam change). I don't have another small block laying around, so I don't know if there may be other plugs (screw in or frost) on the back of the motor that may be the culprit. I recently changed from a plastic to a copper oil line for my gauge, and I have verified that it is not causing the leak as well.

I currently do not have a transmission dust inspection cover on the transmission, so the oil leak pretty much hits the converter and is thrown into the passenger side header causing it to smoke after it has been sitting. I also believe that the converter is throwing it up to the top of the bell housing and is causing so oil to accumulate on the top rear of the motor. I would put the inspection cover back on, but the cover(s) I have do not line up correctly with the bolt holes. Does anybody know what years of inspection covers fit which type of 727's? I thought they were all the same, but apparently there is at least two versions.

Thanks for your help!
Dartman
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Old 08-20-2003, 01:35 PM
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in addition to the welch plug behind the camshaft, there are i believe, 2 threaded oil gallery plugs. these require a 3/8" allen wrench to tighten or remove, if memory serves me right. i dont think these would be the problem, though, as they are pretty tight. they plug the main oil galleries in the block, so they would see full oil pressure. i would try to find for certain where the oil is coming from. if it is getting on the front of the converter, it is inside the bell housing, and that could only mean 4 places... the aforementioned gallery plugs... the welch plug behind the cam... the rear main seal... or a crack in the block. since you say "I fired it up and almost immediatly had about a 4 inch wide puddle of oil.", it almost certainly has to be a severe pressure leak.

hate to say this, but i imagine that you are going to have to remove the engine to find and repair this leak. rear main seals often leak (never saw one that didnt) but they dont often leak 4" puddles almost immediately. if it is the rear main seal, i think that it can be replaced with the engine in the car, but it isnt going to be easy. otherwise, you will have to remove the engine.

since you recently replaced the camshaft, i would almost certainly expect that welch plug to be the culprit... sometimes it doesnt take much of a bump to dislodge it... especially if it has been bumped before.

good luck.
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Old 08-20-2003, 01:37 PM
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If it's engine oil you're leaking, and not trans atf, it sounds as if you've got a rear main seal problem
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Old 08-20-2003, 05:06 PM
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or a pin hole in the pan
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Old 08-20-2003, 06:56 PM
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I just replaced the pan gasket and inspected the pan in the process. I pushed the concave bolt holes out, other than that it looks like it is structurely sound.

So is it possible to replace both halves of a rear main seal while the motor is in the car? It is my understanding that the rear main and oil pump assemby would have come off, but is there a tool or other special way to get the seal out? I only recently found an article that explains the use of a special tool to replace main bearings while the crank is still in place, so I guess anything is possible.

I think I might rig up a inspection cover that would have a built in shield to keep the oil off the headers, as well as having a reservoir to leak into. This will also keep the oil from hitting the covnerter, too. At least I might try this until I can tear the motor down this winter....

Dartman
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Old 08-20-2003, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
I also believe that the converter is throwing it up to the top of the bell housing and is causing so oil to accumulate on the top rear of the motor.
.....hmmm, sounds a little far fetched. I would check the back of the intake manifold (had to remove it for cam swap) just cannot imagine, even with no cover, that the converter could throw the oil all the way up to the top rear of the motor
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Old 08-21-2003, 11:30 AM
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oops.. check the obvious first..like oil pressure sending unit..KNOWN to leak..they do make special tool for replacing the rear main, but I've never used them..still have to drop the pan and crank down a little to gain access..best to check with your local speed shop for ideas ( of course you know the only right way to repair the leak if it is the rear main )..
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Old 08-21-2003, 11:57 AM
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if the oil is getting on the converter, it is almost certainly NOT leaking from above the bell housing... which would eliminate oil pressure sending unit, valley gaskets, etc.... unless we are talking about more than one leak.

also, with a leak of the magnitude described, "almost immediatly had about a 4 inch wide puddle of oil. ", unless trips are very short, and oil is checked and refilled frequently, it wont be long before this engine will be seriously FUBAR. i dont know how long "almost immediately" is... but even if it is only 5 minutes, that would be a substantial amount of oil lost to this leak.

after a day or so to think about it, a question comes to mind... was it leaking like this before you replaced the pan gasket? if not, then i would suspect the pan gasket, or possibly the pan itself is bent. did you use a straight edge when you straightened the bolt holes? did you check to make sure the pan and gasket are flat against the block? did you get all the old gasket material off?

i still suspect a pressure leak, unless there is a substantial hole in a non-pressure area that sees a lot of splash. my idea of a pinhole would leak oil... but not a 4" puddle in a short period of time.
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Old 08-21-2003, 03:24 PM
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Thanks for all of the replies guys.

I think there may possibly be a small leak from the corner of the intake manifold or valve cover that could be causing the "up top" oil. When I first noticed it, I immediately suspected the oil sender so it was replaced the line with copper and new ferrells. I washed down the back of the motor and took it for a 20 minute beat ride, getting on it slightly. Came back and no oil to be found at all on top of the motor. A week later, I took it for to a car show, did not get on it, came back and a small amount of oil had accumulated below the head on the passenger's side, and oil appeared to be around the distributor as well. Possibly from sitting for a week, but I had just detailed the motor for the show.

I think that I do have two separate leaks. One up top either on a valve cover (althought they've been replaced a couple times) or in the corner of the intake. The other is most likely just a rear main seal since the pan itself look perfectly straight and went on nice and evenly on a clean block. I was actually hoping that someone

The leak is still creating about a 4 inch puddle of oil, but it is not an actively dripping leak. I think I'll try to limp it through till this winter...

Thanks for the replies...
Dartman
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Old 08-21-2003, 10:41 PM
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Wash the block again just like you were going to a show, put some dye in the oil, get a black light start the engine let it idle and search for the leaks. R&R as necessary
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