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  #1  
Old 08-21-2003, 10:02 PM
JoeM29 JoeM29 is offline
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Default help with huge cam change problem

ok so heres the deal, i bought a cam change kit, and i was preparing to change it, well i have never done one so my mothers boyfriend offered to help me. so we took the old one out, everything is going great, and the next day i come home from work and the new cam is in with the rockers and timing cover, he tells me everything is ready to go, so i put the rest of stuff on, and prepare to fire it, i crank it and nothing, spark and gas is great, still nothing, i pop the valve cover and i have 9 bent pushrods, ouch he tells me he must have messed up when putting the rockers in, (moved them out of the lifters) so i put my old push rods in, and try it again, and it still wont work, he swears the timing chain is perfect, well he was wrong, he was 4 teeth off, so i fix that and fire it, starts perfectly, i turn it off, change the oil, and start it again bring it to 2000 but i have a ping coming from the valley pan, so i shut it off, i didnt mess with timing, it could need adjustment but i was alone and needed another set of hands. does the cam make noise when breaking in? is the timing out? or did this horse toothed jack ass mess up sothing else, any input, assy lube was used
thanks, joe
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Old 08-21-2003, 10:16 PM
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23T 23T is offline
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Ouch! is he still alive or just recouperiting? LOL You may want to pull the rockers, push rods and lifters and check the cam with a shop light down through the lifter bores to see if you can see any visable damage to the cam of course someone will need to turn the engine by hand while you make the inspection and while you have it down check the rocker assambley and the lifters. Sure hope its a minor fix
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  #3  
Old 08-21-2003, 10:17 PM
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amxauto-x amxauto-x is offline
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My first impression is that another rod has bent and is hitting the valley pan.
I take it this is a stroked 440?
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Old 08-21-2003, 10:56 PM
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hchris6360 hchris6360 is offline
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Another thing to concider, how big of a change in lift? Possible a valve got bent when all the push rods took a beating?
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Old 08-21-2003, 11:01 PM
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I noticed you live in a place named Old Bridge...so, did you throw him off of it?
We have 2 great bridges here in SF if you need to borrow one! LOL!
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Old 08-21-2003, 11:09 PM
JoeM29 JoeM29 is offline
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ouch not good news so far, so i take it there is not "break in Noise", the 440 is not stroked, and the cam is a .590 mopar purple. the thing is the car starts, runs, and idles fine, would timing cause a ping from the valley pan,
thanks, .joe
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Old 08-22-2003, 10:12 AM
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Geezer Geezer is offline
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Default Noise?/

I'd be looking at the bent valve idea. I'd also wonder about using a cam w/ that much lift, [.590] without checking piston to valve clearances first.
Timing?? What do you have it set at??

I would start from scratch, check everything out, and run his dumba$$ off, at least til you got thru w/ the job..
Mom needs a new "boyfriend".. the current one is braindead.
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Old 08-23-2003, 03:38 PM
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other than the lifters rattling untill they get pumped up, there should be no strange sounds from the cam-lifter-pushrod-rocker arm-valve area. look for another bent pushrod or possibly a bent valve. also check for coil bind on the valve springs... unless you replaced those with the recommended springs, the stock springs may not be able to deal with the lift. i dont know what the max lift on stock springs is... but i think that it is something less than .500" at the cam. a .500 lift cam with 1.5 rockers would be .75" lift at the valve... if i got my math done right. i am running a .484 lift cam with stock rockers and springs... i dont think you can go much bigger than that without changing the springs.
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Old 08-24-2003, 03:21 AM
mhenesian mhenesian is offline
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Hi JoeM29,

I've recently had a similar experience with a mystery valley cover noise on changing over to a different roller timing chain on my 440. Don't panic ! If the engire runs strong, with no mis-fire, you don't have a bent valve !

The mystery noise turned out due to the extra long bolts that I used to attach the lower crank damper pulley. Even with a lock washer and an extra flat washer, one damn bolt was banging on the timing cover sheet metal, giving a sharp metallic sound. This sound increased in frequency and intensity as I revved up the motor. Just a slight back and forth movement of the crank under load, increased the banging.

Going back to the "short" stock length bolts fixed the problem.

Good Luck !
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Old 08-24-2003, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by creative1
other than the lifters rattling untill they get pumped up, there should be no strange sounds from the cam-lifter-pushrod-rocker arm-valve area. look for another bent pushrod or possibly a bent valve. also check for coil bind on the valve springs... unless you replaced those with the recommended springs, the stock springs may not be able to deal with the lift. i dont know what the max lift on stock springs is... but i think that it is something less than .500" at the cam. a .500 lift cam with 1.5 rockers would be .75" lift at the valve... if i got my math done right. i am running a .484 lift cam with stock rockers and springs... i dont think you can go much bigger than that without changing the springs.
Hey creative
Your right almost.
The 590 cam is a mechanical lifter,not a hydraulic.
There for there would be no lifter pump up.
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  #11  
Old 08-25-2003, 09:20 AM
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So what made the push rods bend.....only 2 things will cause a pushrod to bend.

1. Coil Bind

2. The cam was installed 4 teeth off??? Yikes....the intakes hit the pistons, if your lucky the only damage is some bent valves.

The last one we repaired for a Do-It-Yourselfer....
Rebore
New Pistons
Full valve job
All new intakes
New pushrods
1 rod
Turn crank...blah blah blah
....about $5K....

They kept trying to make it run untill they turned a valve into a coat hook, jammed it through the piston, the piston gauled the bore and bent a rod.

They used the wrong mark on the crank gear and set it in about 40* off, after bending 3 sets of pushrods they brought it over on a wrecker.....he gets it back today.
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Old 08-25-2003, 08:08 PM
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Default same prob.

I have a 64 Polara with a 451 in it. Beginning of the race year brand new motor, one race later it had 14 burned pushrods and 3 bent. The cam was a .750 roller. The problem was like what don had said, coil bind. So instead of fighting the springs, I just went and bought a new .625 roller cam. Moral of the story, check your spring pressure to get a starting point. Hey Don, good to see the Fish up here @ Bremerton, didn't get to talk to u unfortunately. Jeff
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  #13  
Old 08-26-2003, 12:33 AM
JoeM29 JoeM29 is offline
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ok, its ok guys, no bent valves, it was the timing cover problem earlier discussed, only that i must have bent the conver during intall and it was scraping,
thanks, joe
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  #14  
Old 08-26-2003, 02:59 AM
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cuda66273 cuda66273 is offline
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Quote
"Hey Don, good to see the Fish up here @ Bremerton, didn't get to talk to u unfortunately. Jeff"

I don't know why I had lots of time to visit...LOL....wasn't that a disgusting display of driving.....jeezzze

Excuse number 176...dirt in my contacts...

We were parked over in the only bad spot in that entire 250 acre facility, right on the driveway for the field parking. Right in the middle of the dust bowl...my eyes were so bad I was peeing on my shoes.....I only took one pair of contacts and destroyed one of them while we were unloading the car...tried to race with one eye...that doesn't work as you could tell.

We did set the new Avatar record up there...11.96 at 112.55 and we did enjoy the trip and the facility.

Allan did really wel on Saturday with the Dart, he had Killer lights...almost made the pay window...

It's always better to race where you have a chance to get paid than to race your ass off, win and get squat, we'll be back many times next year.

Looking forward to next season, make the time to introduce yourself next time.
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