MOPAR engine

[Doug Wilson]

Can anyone tell me anything about the new(er) 4.7L Magnum MOPAR engine? Especially compared to the newer 5.2L Magnum? Looking for specs, efficiency comparison - fuel mileage in similar rigs, etc. Comparative performance??

Thanks, guys (etc.).... Doug

[ehostler]

The 4.7l was designed to replace the 5.2l. The torque and HP numbers are very close. The 4.7 gets better mileage.

[Glen440]

Me and my buddy just tested out our Daks over 1700 km this weekend. We used pretty much the exact same amount of fuel.
He has a 99 CC dak,5.2 with 3.55 gears 28" tires and 5 speed, I have a 2003 CC dak, 4.7, 5 speed, 3.92 gears, 29.5" tires. I had 1 extra passenger but he had all our stuff so it was even. I got a tiny bit more mileage but he has 160 000 km and I have 15 000km. It was so close on fill ups I would say they were the same. we were always within 1 litre.
My dak runs 15.2's@88mph
I'm happy with the 4.7.

[Doug Wilson]

Thank you for the good info guys. I guess your taller tires pretty much make up for the gearing difference. It looks like a good comparison to me. Did you by any chance calculate your mileage? I think I'll be getting the 3.92 axle. If you give me km/liter or km/Imperial Gallon, I can work out the mpg. Do they still use Imperial gallons up there in God's country?

Thanks from... Doug

[Glen440]

The only time I calculated it, it included 30 min of idling at the border. 458 km on 15.06 us gallons so it was 19mpg. I get around 14mpg city. We use litres here and we have 4 litres per gallon. Those mpg are in US gallons. My window sticker says 19 city and 27 highway.........lol maybe if I put a tow strap on the car ahead.

[cuda66273]

Hey Doug
Thats what my dear sweet Mother In Law has in her new Durango..I drive it all the time when were down at the Race Track House.

Plenty of pep and real smooth...I lifted the hood a few times and have yet been able to find the spark plugs but I'm sure they're under all that $hit somewhere...Holley and Mom..that sweet lady....drove it back from Az last year and got about 20 MPG on the trip.

Why do i speak so highly ogf my Mother In Law?...she buys me 3 Gallons of Brown Liquor every year for my birthday, Power Tools and race car parts for Christmas and supplies a 30' x 75' garage to store all my $hit in..now that's a Mother In Law!

Hey Doug...pull my finger....LOL

[Doug Wilson]

Thanks for the good info.

Do you think a Dakota with a 4.7 and 3.92 gears would be an acceptable replacement for towing the 2 horse trailer - replacing the F450 dually with the 460 and 4.63 gears???

[1972roadrunner]

Originally posted by Doug Wilson
Thanks for the good info.

Do you think a Dakota with a 4.7 and 3.92 gears would be an acceptable replacement for towing the 2 horse trailer - replacing the F450 dually with the 460 and 4.63 gears???

dakota? mebbe, loaded or not? i dunno though, f450 is a big truck!

[Doug Wilson]

Yeah, I know. The problem is... with gas prices like they are, and the Ford getting around 5 MPG, I can't afford to drive it except to tow the horses, and I want a nice driver, that I can afford. When the gas started going up in February, I bought a '79 Rabbit diesel - 55 MPG, but otherwise no fun at all. So... I want to get something to tow the horses with that gets decent economy so I can drive it for fun occasionally. I've pretty much narrowed it down to the Dakota 4.7 4X4 with 3.92 gears. I looked at the Ram Diesels, but they don't have any low end - they really accelerate like crap & would be worse towing the horses (I'd have to buy an older one, 'cause I can't afford the $45K hit for a new one).

So... any thoughts to help me out?

[1972roadrunner]

i know it's not dodge, but have you thought of the chevy duramax diesels? theres a few runnin around in town, and i actually pulled a 34' 5th wheel camper with 3 slide outs down the road. it pulled really great! it passed like my moms v6 does, and i had a pretty big trailer...

in town unloaded and broken in, i've heard of people getting 19-22mpg. loaded it was something like 15mpg. highway was a bit higher. **NOTE** these numbers are from what my chem teacher and friends dads have said!

also, unloaded and with the allison 5spd automatic, i hit 90mph in about 4 city blocks...that really surprised the shit outta me, as it was smoking the tires (posi) for the first block...(not dually, 2500 extended cab).

[Doug Wilson]

I looked at them, too. I just don't have enough money for one.

[cuda66273]

I just don't have enough money for one.

none of us have enough money

[Doug Wilson]

I thought that things were OK with you, since Holley hit the PowerBall.... Oh.... she forgot to tell you.

[1972roadrunner]

Originally posted by Doug Wilson
I thought that things were OK with you, since Holley hit the PowerBall.... Oh.... she forgot to tell you.

ROFLMFAO!

[Glen440]

The club cab 4.7 Dak is rated to tow 6000lbs. The big ram is like 16-18 000 lbs and thats with the Hemi not the deisel. The dak will pull a car trailer no prob.

[Blygy]

I'll wade in here on this debate..

The Duramax is an aluminum headed deisel engine.. I'm not sure I want alum on my 9:1 440 never mind a 18:1 deisel.

also this handy Alison only has 60,000KM warranty on it and it is a $10,000 trannie..

chevy trucks are a premium price.. my 03 Dodge was $7500 cheaper than a similar equiped chevy..

personally I chose the Dodge W3500 deisel quadcab.. it only has the SO deisel (250HP 460 TQ)

the one thing I'd change is from 3.73 to 4.10..

towing with the 3.73s sucks.. too fast in OD and to slow in 3rd

And that's my two cents..

Blygy

[Doug Wilson]

Thanks again, guys.

[1972roadrunner]

Originally posted by Blygy
I'll wade in here on this debate..

The Duramax is an aluminum headed deisel engine.. I'm not sure I want alum on my 9:1 440 never mind a 18:1 deisel.

also this handy Alison only has 60,000KM warranty on it and it is a $10,000 trannie..

i have heard of horror stories with the duramax, but there are also stories of old fella's that take it easy on diesels and haven't had any problems.

$10,000 ? where did you get that? when i build a chevy truck online it's only +$2,000. that, and the warrenty is void if you use oversized tires

the new dodge looks better too, and i can get a better equipped dodge (audio stuffs and entertainment) for at least $3,000 cheaper. i've heard (i dunno if it's true) that the insurance of a new dodge is killer! a guy that works with my dad was gonna get one, but came back with a duramax cuz of insurance...

[Lesley]

Hey Doug, I can't help you out with any technical towing data, but I worked with race horses for several years, and foxhunted all over this part of Canada and a bit in the US too for 10 years It was the general consensus that when towing a couple of horses, the weight of the truck was really important. No way did you ever want to not be able to have the weight to stop when you needed to (real important with those huge big hunt horses, some of which weighed over 1300 lbs ea., my dakota is only 4,000 lbs.).
We were quite often deep into the country, up hills and on some not too civilized roads, so the truck had to be solid. Most of the folks I knew drove big full size trucks.

[Doug Wilson]

I surely appreciate all the advice and help. The good, USED, fullsize Diesels are just out of my price range.

We tow a couple of Arabs - one is about 1,000 pounds (at 14.1 hands, she is just barely a horse - a bit smaller and she'd be a pony!). The other is about 1,200 and all up weight, with tack and feed in the trailer is right at 4,000.

The Dakota seems to be the only thing I can afford that will get OK fuel economy, and that I can afford, that will do the job. I'm open to suggestions on other rigs.

Oh, yeah... we only tow the horses about 2,000 miles a year, and no rough country.

Thanks, again.

[pro69bee]

As far as towing with a late dakota,you will not like the brakes.They are marginal at best for the unloaded truck,thers little hope for haulin horses.I work for Chrysler dodge,Jeep,just be ready to buy lots of brake rotors,and service diffs often.

[1972roadrunner]

Originally posted by pro69bee
As far as towing with a late dakota,you will not like the brakes.They are marginal at best for the unloaded truck,thers little hope for haulin horses.I work for Chrysler dodge,Jeep,just be ready to buy lots of brake rotors,and service diffs often.

thats why they put brakes on trailers

[John Cessford]

Doug I hauled horses up to McMinnville from Reno last weekend I would recommend the diesel. I have a 97 with Cummins and automatic (180 hp) . Pulled Siskous ,Sexton , Anderson Grade, all over 55mph and averaged 15 mpg. using as driver w/o trailer 21 mpg. Even if you have to go a little older get the diesel. Also prices in Oregon are high on used diesels go to eastern oregon or Idaho they are a lot cheaper there. AS far as Duramax diesels I have heard of a few commercial customers that have had only scrap iron under the hood at 70,000 miles and GM not too willing to adress the problem(no warranty on repaired engine)

[TheTanSedan]

(Doug, everything I have to say or cite may already be familiar to you, so get out the salt shaker if need be):

Just in looking at the figures cited above -- and the gear choices mentioned -- 2k per year ought to be do-able. I have no experience with Dakotas, but family has been towing a lot since the 1950's.

Remember that the 6k rating is pretty much for flat terrain. If you've have a lot of long grades, better keep a giant trans and engine oil cooler on there.

In this link (for a thread I'm still working on) the second post has some links you may find useful:

http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums...hreadid=425976

(This references a short wheelbase, lightweight vehicle rated to 5k by factory).

Besides an excellent brake controller and engineered-package hitch (90% of those towing DO NOT have correct geometry; takes some work),
the adddition of overload devices designed to keep the vehicle near level when towing ought to be considered. Obviously, the rig needs to be level before you ever hook up (after loading EVERYTHING into tow vehicle, including pasengers and fuel). This is where you want any overload device to work for you: be it a TIMBREN spring, a ROADMASTER Active Suspension spring, AIR LIFT Bags, etc. Vehicle needs to be level with whatever load placed on it. (Just don't exceed GAWR.) Biggest anti-roll bars FF/RR also a good idea.

Then, and only then, should the trailer be hitched and the weight-distribution adjusted.

I cannot strongly enough recommend the use of a CAT Scale for the rig enough: completely empty, usual load, full travel load, tow load and, finally, complete rig with everything about as maxed as you'll ever get it. One wants to sort out the proper loading of each axle. (Which is why I also think the EQUAL-I-ZER hitch is such a good deal).

For example, on a recent 1,000 mile tow with three passengers, luggage, and the college belongings of our boy in a 535# (dry weight) U-Haul trailer we maxed at 4,800#.

(Ship weight is 2,995, and weight with driver, full fuel and a few odds and ends is 3,460):

Steer Axle 1,840

Drive Axle 1,640

This gives a front/rear weight bias of 53%/47%.



When scaled on the way out of town, we were at 4,800#:

1,880 Steer Axle

2,140 Drive Axle

780 Trailer Axle

This puts the tow vehicle at 4,020#. And herein is the "problem" of using a "small" vehicle to tow:

STEERING/BRAKING CONTROL has gone to s%&^.

The bias is now EXACTLY reversed: FF at 47% and RR at 53% PLUS the remaining trailer weight! (And this was on brand-new oem rear leaf packs).

(Ran out of time to have referenced underload spring set installed, but have made this trip without trailer four times in past two years; great roads, just took it nice and easy and averaged over 16 mpg at 55-62 mph [Solo averages 22.5 mpg at 68-70 mph).

Balance is everything, and if the vehicle is otherwise suitable, then play with the balance until a near stock front/rear bias can again be obtained. A PITA, but well worth it in terms of safety and vehicle reliability.

Folks recommend a full-size good and well. But it's a little like building a 383 versus a 440 . . . if you miss the target power goals, then it ain't as noticeable with the bigger motor.

Do the homework, IMHO, and 2k annually is a breeze for an otherwise suitable "small" tow vehicle. Just gotta take a harder run at the longer hills.

Good luck

[Glen440]

I just pulled 6000lbs with my Dak from Maryland to NY and went through the Pennsilvania mountains and it was sad. Fine on flat roads but hills I needed to run at or I couldn't accelerate.
Brakes on my 2003 are awsome stopped no probs. If it wasn't a stick I would of never made some of the hills. If I was up in the revs in 3rd or like 70 mph I was fine, if I was at 50 mph in the hill I was stuck there.