W series heads history?

[mastrdrver]

I am new to MOPARs and was wondering if there was something I could read to learn about the history about these heads? I always hear people talked about W2s and W7s, but which is better for which app, and how are they different from the other W heads? This is total different from the Chevy world that I come from where every sb head fits every sbc out there.

Thanks
Jeremy

[Billydelrio]

"W" heads are small block wedge heads
I was lead to believe that the W1 was the TA head. It was the first performance "LA" head to have offset intake rockers for relocated pushrod holes. After Mr. M improved the design, the W2 was introduced.

"P" series heads are of the Poly design (almost Hemi) for the "A" engines. The P1 lasted from the beginning of time to 1968 when it was set aside in favor of the cheaper W series head. In the last few years, the P series has made a strong come back in "Big $" race series.

The Mopar Small Block engine book has a some information about the W heads.

I hope that some of the "old timers" get in on this thread and give us better information.

Billy

[rumblefish360]

I don't know about the "Old" P series head Billy spoke off. But....

The W-2 was introduced in....I forget the year...to the public as a race head. In a unported form, the head flows in the area of 260-270 cfm out of the box. This Iron head was copied by 2 other companys in Aluminum.
Out of the box, they didn't do to bad but could use some work. Lots of work can net big gains. (A freind had the basic full port work done on it and came up with 325 cfm. He could have gone father, but major mods and oversized valves weren't in the picture.)
The offset rockers on the head were a direct "Idea" copy of the 1970 small block T/A (Trans Am) head of the Cuda and Challenger 340 6 pak engine.
The rockers between the 2 heads can be shared. Although there are more then 1 offset that you can purchase. The T/A rockers work, but are not the same as the W-2 rockers.
The pushrods were offset to get rid of the bump in the intake wall. This off course inlarged the area and straightened out the port. Thereby giving a better straight shot to the valve.
(T/A heads are rare to find. W-2's can be had new.)
Back in the day, for some reason, the ports were made in an oval shape.
The exhaust on the econo head has dual bolt patterns for the race headers or the street headers. The race version of the W-2 has 1 bolt pattern for the race only headers.
Also to note, 3 things here
The race W-2 head does not have the pedestals for the rocker shaft cast in the head. You will need to purchase them and set them up as needed. The "Econo head has the there allready.
2, The term race head and econo head DO NOT mean theres a performance difference between the heads. The word Econo is given to the head because it has the rocker stands allready cast in and will use stock parts right from an old head. Again, except the offset side being the intake rockers.
3. The bolt spacing is wider for the intake on all W series heads. To use a stock or aftermarket intake designed for the stock heads on a W series head, you will need to drill a new hole and it the old one should be welded closed.

[rumblefish360]

The W-5 series head is an aluminum heads as are the rest of the W series heads. The W-5 is a rectangle port head and stock intakes can be used with little effort.
W-7, W-8, W-9 are strickly race heads that could be used for the street. I would not go that route for the street due to expense and complications with street duty and race heads needing "As per spec engine" set up.

The current "P" heads series is a mega power race head. Semi Hemi in design, it also borrows from the older Poly seires engine valve set up. While far far removed, the ports, chambers and welll, evrything is seriesouly moved and changed around.
Theres the P-5 & the P-7.

For the street and if you can say bugget race in the same sentence, the W-2 and the W-5 would be the wise choice. Nothing exotic going on there, but excellent power can be had.

This is total different from the Chevy world that I come from where every sb head fits every sbc out there.

Well, almost every Chevy head and intake system can be mixed and matched, but, while your here, try not to equate the 2. It just may add confusion in your head.

The only weird things going on in MoPar heads are this;
Older 273 heads use a different angle to mate the intake to the head and they use a smaller 5/16 bolt to secure the head to the block.
The T/A heads. If you find a pair, your lucky. Pushrods are offset and intake rockers as well.
Magnum series heads can be bolted on and used with the correct parts. The big issue is pushrod length. Magnum heads must use magnum intakes and there own valve prings rockers etc...
The W-7 and up head can be bolted to a stock block, but there issues there. The heads are for the race blocks. Race blocks intended for the 7-8-9 heads have different cam banks. They went from 59-48 degrees. This changes a few things. Pushrod angle was the main reason as it gets straightened out.
Also, theres a row of bolt holes on the head to improve sealing the head to the block. You could use this head on a stock block, but the headache in doing so may just really be worth the expense of a race block. Then theres the bennifits of the better race block.
With the potentail power to be made with the 7-8-9 heads, a stock block is a poor choice.

[jimm II]

Rumble has it pretty well on track ...the T/A hydralic cammed 340 developed into the W-0 head for short tracks then ,came the W-1 which was raising of the exhaust ports for flow "D shape". Then on to the W 2 heads these were developed by Mullen & company back in the early to mid seventies for short track and high bank circle track. One of the off shoots was the KIT CAR program.

[mastrdrver]

Two questions:

1) Where do the R/T heads fall in as far as this and performance wise

2) What are aftermarket heads considered? ei: Edelbrock, Brodix, and Indy just off the top of my head.

Thanks for all the help. I'm still a little confused on the P heads. Did they come in after or the same time as the W heads and how readily available are they?

[Christopher]

The first year of the W-2 heads was 1976.They were in development as far back as 1970,but due to emissions regulations,and the gas crunch this project got stalled a few years.The original(1976) sets were good heads and were about a 50-75 Hp increase over standard A engine heads.The W-2's were actually ran on Petty's Charger in 1975,and he ran them all year.One of the drag racers Chrysler was involved with in 1974 tested the W-2's on a Pro Stock Dart sport mule car.

Later the heads came out with other versions/ castings,ones with cast in rocker pedistals (called econo) that were less money.At one time you could buy brand new "econo" W-2 heads for about $150.00 a set.(wholesale)

To me,they are still a good set of cylinder heads.

[Locomotion]

Don Carlton was one person involved with the testing of the W-2 heads. This development led to Bob Glidden's domination in 1979(?) with his Plymouth Arrow in Pro Stock. Landy and a few others also used W-2's, but they were "massaged" extensively.
There was also a "mule" Little Red Truck with a W-2 360 that was tested by a magazine in the late '70's, but it never made it into production for a variety of reasons.

Some of the W-2 "race" heads also have a dual exhaust bolt pattern.

The R/T heads are a totally different design and basically are to the OEM Magnum like W-2's are to the std. or T/A heads.

[mr_340]

Somewhere I read that they called ported 340 heads W-0, then the TA heads were W-1. I think this was in the Larry Atherton book from the early seventies. It also mentions the work that Bob Mullen did on the early 340 heads with brazed up ports. I seem to remember a Car Craft/Hot Rod article showing a welded up 340 head that was the prototype for the W2.

The Rod Shop Colt wagon used the Weslake heads for a while. Anyone have a pic of those? I think they were used on the 318 Indy car project.

The P heads are relatively new. I think they were developed for the now defunct Pro Stock trucks. David Rampy ran a set of the "Hemi" P heads for a while before switching back to Shivy. I think Patterson ran out of free Mopar parts.

[rumblefish360]

mastrdrver;

"What are aftermarket heads considered? ei: Edelbrock, Brodix, and Indy just off the top of my head. "

Edel. heads for the street and light race.
Brodix heads seem to be similar to the Edel. heads. I think it's Nightngale (SP) runs them and LOVES them. I read some spec on them. You jugde.
Indy has Edel. heads for sale. They also get the heads from Edel. before machine work is done on parts of them. They (Indy) move the pushrods over like the T/A head. There offered mild to extensively wild. A good buy IMO.
Indy also has race heads for the small block. If your going for the gold, these are it. Seriesly altered, these heads show impresive airflow. NOT FOR THE FAINT OF HEART!. (Or meak of wallet.)

http://www.indyheads.com/
http://edelbrock.com/automotive/index.html
http://brodix.com/

As said befor. The R/T head is a cross of the better factory offerings melded and melted into one head. I seen a guy at another site port them to (I think) 300 cfm. (Take this with a gain of salt.) Ethier way, they should prove nice.

[mastrdrver]

I think I have narrowed it down to two choices. What do you guys think is better for a 408, ported r/t heads or W2 heads from Indy? Do regular carbed intakes fit the r/t heads or are they different?

[rumblefish360]

The W-2's will hold more cam lift over the Magnum heads as out of the box comdition. The W-2's can also support 2 inch valve gear if needed.
There are carb designed intakes for the Magnum heads in dual and single plane from MoPar.

[sanborn]

This may be beating the subject to death- but here goes.

I really don't remember much about the W0 and W1 heads- really don't know if I ever knew exactly what they were. We did use some fully ported "X" heads and I did see several sets of TA heads-I seem to remember they we nothing more than "X" heads with revised machining to accept offset rockers- and they allowed for extensive widening of the intake port if you desired to port them.

My memory really begins with W2s. We got our first set through Larry Rathgeb, from Petty Engineering in about 1975. I remember they were serial numbered in R&L sets. They weren't ported, but were the smoothest non ported heads I had ever seen(both inside and outside the ports). We bought them as a complete kit-heads, valves, springs, retainers, rockers, stands, shafts and intake. Bolted them on, replacing a fully worked set of "X" heads from Valley Head Service, and promply went significantly faster. Never saw another set like them- some said they were "white" sand castings- others said they were cast by Diamond for Mopar. Don't know but never saw another set of W2s that smooth.

Other early sets of W2s came in "race" and "econo" versions. The "race" versions had longer valves and used separate rocker shaft stands to move the rockers further back from the springs so a larger spring could be used. The "econo" versions used standard length valves and had the rocker stands cast into the heads. The "race" versions had dual exhaust manifold patterns, the "econo" heads had only the standard exhaust bolt pattern. The ports were the same in both heads.

There were a few sets of W2 "econo" heads that came off the showroom floor. Texas and Arizona State Troopers used some in special pursuit cars in 1978-79. Quantities were very limited.

Mopar reintroduced the W2s in the early 90s. Significant changes were made; they were beefier, had better spring pads, improved ports, better water circulation and were available in closed chamber versions. Those same heads are still available today. They can be recognized by "Mopar" and "W2" being cast into the side of each head. They carry both exhaust bolt patterns. They W2s are VERY good heads in stock form and when properly ported flow well over 300CFM.

To my knowledge, there has never been a W3 or W4 head(yet).

W5s were cast of aluminum, are really an improved copy of the W2s. They are retangular port, use closed chambers. Ported flow capability is about the same as W2s.

Although there was never any "official" W6s, I believe some were cast. Why do I say that? I got hold of a set of Mopar heads about 1995 that had raised intake ports, very large valves, closed chambers AND used standard W2 rocker gear AND fit standard blocks. They used the high rise W7 intake, separate valley cover. They had huge ports and were very heavy. I never ran them, sold them to someone out in Washington.

The W2s, W5s and W6(if that is what they were) all fit the standard block and use standard offset rocker arms.

The W7, W8 and W9 heads all are designed to be used with 48 degree lifter bore blocks. All are raised ports, oil the rockers through the pushrods and are considered "all out " race heads. If you want to go really fast- that's the way to go. Properly prepared, they flow up to 370 CFM @.700" lift. The W7s were the first developed, used in Nascar Supertruck competition, weighed 42 lbs. each(bare). Some did tend to seep a little water. The W8s were much better, had better combustion chambers, flowed a little better(when properly ported) but produced much better HP. They weighed 28 lbs. each(bare). They were the best head used on Nascar trucks before the new R5 block, P7 head engine was introduced. The W9s were introduced later, designed to be very light(20 lbs. each) and are used in Sprint and Super Late Model race cars. There are standard and raised port versions. They flow the best(around 380CFM-properly prepared) and use 2.220" intake/1.625" exhaust valves.

There were some hybred heads in the W series. For example I have seen some retangular port W2s(unported). Don't know if they were "tricked up" standard W2s or not. There also were some raised port W8s-but I don't think Mopar ever let any sets out- I would love to have a set- but probably couldn't afford them. Oh well, I'll live with my standard W8s.

There have been aftermarket copies of the W series heads produced as well. Diamond and Miller produced aluminum W2s in the early days. I think Batten still offers aluminum W2s in both oval and rectangular port versions. Arrington produced a raised port aluminum head-used in the first Nascar trucks. Good heads! Some were designed for standard blocks, some for the 48 degree block only.

Hope this helps!

[DartGT66]

Batten does not sell the aluminum W2's anymore. Indy bought their tools from Batten and now makes them slightly revised.

[LA360Dart]

I found some more info on the w-o and w-1 heads. 1980 direct connection book refers to the w-0 head as a 340 stock cylinder head part#2531902 (stock x heads)and the w-1's as T/A heads part# 3577053.
The book goes on to recommending these heads as a start for kit car sportsman cars.

[6 packin]

Originally posted by LA360Dart
I found some more info on the w-o and w-1 heads. 1980 direct connection book refers to the w-0 head as a 340 stock cylinder head part#2531902 (stock x heads)and the w-1's as T/A heads part# 3577053.
The book goes on to recommending these heads as a start for kit car sportsman cars.

Im not sure about the WO's and what not, i have had the opportunity to see a set of W7's that are real ugly, the ports are mearly there, requires lots of work and porting. The W series head in my book carry no common resimblance to the production pre magnum head, they have different valve gear which the T/A heads did have, but the ports are way different in shape and size using both the own type of intake and exhaust manifolds......................bascilly every thing that Sanborn said.........................uh yea.......thats about it.

[sanborn]

The W7,8 and 9 heads were all cast to be ultimately CNC ported. All look pretty ugly in their "as cast" form. And, they don't flow very well in their "as cast" form either. All were designed to be used with the 48 degree block, oil through the pushrods and use either Jessel or T&D rocker assemblies.

The standard valve angle for all three is 15 degrees, the W8 and W9s can be easily changed to either 13 or 12 degree valve angle as well. The 7s could be changed but the springs tend to contact the valve covers. All have the "meat" to accept injector nozzles directly under the valves. And, all the combustion chambers can be machined for either gasoline or methanol use. Finally, the chambers can go down to 36CCs with ease.