S.O.S. No start, need electrical advice

[mr tiggy]

Hello,
Well ladies and gents let me give you a very brief description of my problem. I have not spark the coil wire....

So i would like any ideas of what might be the cause.
I own an 86 dodge 150 and i just put a 440 in her. i have an msd 6al ingition box and blaster coil. Everything work fine before on the 318, but now....???
I have done a couple of test so far. I have 12 colts to the coil with key on and 8 ish when it is cranking. As i have read in some other post these voltage numbers should be switch, hummmm?
I believe my motor and chassis groud are good.
I do get spark at one point, but it is only when i turn the key back from the run possition to the acc position.
I have tried a different coil wire, but with no avail. I have boostes the battery, but no luck. I have checked connections to the coil a couple times and they look good. I believe the starter realay is good. My msd has full battery voltage. I have also switch to a stock coil with no msd hooked up and still no spark.

Please any help is much appreciated. I would really love to get this thing going, oh and this motor has never been started before.

Thanks
Mike

[23T]

Ballest res is bad or hooked up wrong? Does it try to fire and run when you release the key?

[bbeckwith]

I agree, I would look to the ballast resistor as the possible cause. I always carry a spare, should be standard equipment in any mopar's glovebox. Sounds like the problem to me, but maybe the ignition switch also needs looking into.

[dwc43]

I agree too. Check the ballast resistor.

[Crank]

sounds like the pickup coil in the distributer to me because the ballest will try to start in the start position and quit when you let off the key .the pickup coil will give you one spark when you turn the key on .

[mr tiggy]

Thanks fellas, i will give it a look at tomorrow. I actually tested the resistance with an ohm meter and it checked out but i had left the contacts on which may have given me a skewed result, i will take them off on the next test.
thanks.

[dave571]

Try running straight battery power to your msd switch on wire, while trying to start.

If it starts you've elimated a lot.

Just leaves the switch/balast resistor circuit.

[mr tiggy]

Well this what i have found out so far.
the ballast seems to be fine, tested with an ohm meter again and it is within speck, under 2 ohms.
i also disconnected my msd and put a stock coil on, not wanting to fry the msd, and put 12 volts to the + of the coil. With the key off I can put the 12 volts to the coil and get a spark from the coil wire every time it connects. Then with the key in the run position i can not create a spark and i do not get a spark while cranking, i did this with the pick-up disconnected(would this make a difference? i guess i will trying in a minute with in together).

So any new suggestions?
thanks for the tips so far, keep them coming

[mr tiggy]

Well i was checking things out again and i may have found something. when i go to check resistance on the pick-up coil leads i can't seem to get a steady reading, it seems to bounce around and i have to keep reconnecting the tester leads to get another reading (it goes back to an infinite reading amost immediately). The speck is to be between 150 and 900 ohm, correct? when i do get a reading it is always fluctuating and goes from 40 ohms to as high as 250 or so.

Is it correct for me to say the pick-up coil is gone?
thanks
mike

[dave571]

If your checking it while you turn it over, you will see at fluctuating reading. If not, then there is something wrong.

12 volts to the msd switch wire, won't fry it. I mean the same wire that connects to the old coil + wire. It should have battery voltage on it while cranking anyway.

All that wire does, is turn the msd unit on.

If you do the test I mentioned, and it still doesn't start, you've rulled out the balast resisitor, switch ect. All your really left with is the dist pu, or perhaps the coil itself.

[mr tiggy]

Thanks dave,
Yeah i realize the msd wouldn't be hurt but i know it works just the same when you throw 12v to the + coil terminal and i like being more on the safe side.
As for getting the reading on the pu, i wasn't cranking so i guess there must be something wrong inside. Hopefully i can find on tomorrow and i will let you guys know how it turned out.

thanks for the help so far, hopefully we got this thing licked....i really would like to get this thing running!

mike

[khmh90]

Is pickup Gap correct? Are all the teeth on the reluctor ring?

[mr tiggy]

Well thanks for the help guys, I put in a new pick-up and now we have lots of spark!!
But now i have another little minor problem. When i crank it over it turns good for a second or so and then gives me a little poof out the carb. She almost fired up at one point but on the next 3 or 4 tries it didn't seem like it was going to go, just getting the feedback through the carb.
Do you guys think the timing could be slightly off or maybe a spark plug or two are not fireing, or maybe just flooding.
Can you tell yet this i my first motor job?

I would have check the plugs out already but i just callled it a night and will check them tomorrow.

Please any suggesting will be appreciated i really don't want to go one more day without this thing starting
Thanks
mike

[dave571]

Sounds like you're 180 out on the distributor.

Easy mistake to make weather it's engine 1 or 100.

[mr tiggy]

Funny you should mention that dave, i was 180 degrees out before this last attemt to start it. It was backfireing and blowin stuff out the carb until i turned in 180. Now she doesn't backfire at all but the little bit through the carb, and like i mentioned already it really sounded like it was going to start. Where before it was never close.
I tried advancing the timing a little but didn't change anything..for some reason i think it is a spark plug not firing...but i will check on that later today.
Any other thoughts...thanks a bunch
mike

[70Ted]

the MSD box doesn't need the ballast resistor, the coil is wired to the msd box.

[23T]

Make sure the plug wires are going to the correct plugs per firing order

[mr tiggy]

23t thanks...i would have never thought i would mess up putting on the plugs wires, but i had done just that. So i know have them all rearanged but i can't get the dang thing to trun over stong anymore. now i just get a couple of loops. I have been boosting it with a nother car and this doesn't seem to help. It turns over nice with the sprakies out, but when they are in the starter can't hack it.
Does your host battery need to be in good shape to get things started even with a boost or can it be lacking. I say this because i think the batteries i am using could be below par and just hurting the situation. i can't imagine what else my problems could be i tihink if i can get the motor to crank a little better she should finally go!!!

Thanks for all the responses so far!!!!!!
mike

[70Ted]

sounds like too much intial timing.

[dwc43]

Low batteries or bad starter from prolonged cranking. Also the msd needs a certain amount of voltage to operate.

[ttraut@unlockit]

First of all, I think Ted70 is right - the MSD and blaster don't require the ballast resistor. If you call the MSD support line, they'll tell you to bypass (I don't think it's clear in the instructions).

Anyway, it seems that you've got the same problem I had when I got my distributor back from being recurved by Don. He had replaced my distributor shaft with my marking. I guessed and installed it. After cranking and poofing out of the carb, I stopped.

I supposed I could have simply lifted and rotated the distributor shaft 180*, but I left it as it was and rewired the distributor cap.

I found TDC and looked at where the rotor was pointing (#1). Then I reconnected the distributor cap wires in order: 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 (the 440 as well as the 383 fire COUNTERCLOCKWISE whereas your old 318 fired clockwise!).

Runs like a champ!!

Hope this helps...

Terry

[mr tiggy]

thanks again guys, these are a great help!
So we are thinking that to much initial timing will hurt during cranking because if the spark happens before the piston is at its peak it will cause to much resistance....ok, makes sense, i will retard it a little on the next go round.
As for the distributor and timing, well i have already installed it once backwards and have since intalled it properly. The sparkplug wires are now good to go, i would share how i had messed up on them but it hurt the pride a little too much to know i actually did what i did...lol
As for the battery i have brought it to town to get in checked, i just bought the thing but i think with the cranking, boosting and charging i might have hurt its life expectancy
Thanks again guys and please keep a look out for my thread, i will probably have some more questions soon

mike

[delshin]

mr. Tiggy
Did you originally say this was a new motor? If you are going for the cam break in start up, and you have been cranking your motor all this time, you may have been doing damage to the cam shaft. There are some excellent threads in here concerning the initial start up. IMO it may be a good idea to check out a few of the lifters and cam lobes and put assembly lub on the cam and valve train components. It sounds like a lot of work, and I know I would like to fire up that beast, but in the long run you may come out ahead. Good luck.
dj