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  #1  
Old 09-06-2003, 02:47 PM
sundrop_440 sundrop_440 is offline
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Question 440 tunnel ram

I'm in prosess of some changes on my 440 I'm installing a hughes HEH cam ,10;1 forged pistons 1.5 roller rockers. I want to install adual quad setup I'm either going with the edelbrock rpm or weind tunnel my question is will a tunnel ram give me alot of grief on the street ? I'm also running a2800 stall and 3;55 gears my cams sweet spot is between 2000 and 6500 some of this is for looks but I want to go also
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  #2  
Old 09-06-2003, 03:45 PM
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Never having run a TR on the street myself but knowing some of the basics .....all I can say is - stick with a pair of vacuum secondary carbs.

Do you need a TR setup? ....drop me an email.
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  #3  
Old 09-06-2003, 03:46 PM
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They can be made to work on the street, I would not recomend 2x4 T/R for a daily driver. If you use vac sec carbs and the engine is not strong enough you will just be running on 2x2( you can use the ole 4 golf ball trick) with the cool look and I know of a local chevy 2x4 T/R with 2 huge BG carbs but only one carb has any fuel going to it dont know why he spent all that money but it does look mean and I have never seen him do anything but idle around and park at the local hang-outs
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  #4  
Old 09-06-2003, 04:16 PM
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I ran a wiend Hi ram for years and really liked it. It ran fine on the street and pulled hard from 2500 on up...

Later,

Greg
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  #5  
Old 09-06-2003, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 23T


I know of a local chevy 2x4 T/R with 2 huge BG carbs but only one carb has any fuel going to it dont know why he spent all that money but it does look mean and I have never seen him do anything but idle around and park at the local hang-outs

I will BET that the fuel distribution on that combo SUX !!!
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  #6  
Old 09-06-2003, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mister Fiberglass


I will BET that the fuel distribution on that combo SUX !!!
I think that's why he's always just puttering around, but he may have a whole bag of popsicle sticks glued in there somewhere
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  #7  
Old 09-06-2003, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 23T


I think that's why he's always just puttering around

hahahaha .....LOL .....the things certain people do to TRY and "impress" the people at the Burger joint !!

and NO ONE ever calls him OUT ??
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  #8  
Old 09-06-2003, 07:53 PM
b-1ken b-1ken is offline
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Do NOT put vacuum secondary carbs on that tunnel ram. They will never open. As was stated earlier, you will be running a 2 x 2 if you do. A pair of 600 dbl pumpers will work great. Tunnel rams have real good throttle response and would work nice on the street in warm weather.
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  #9  
Old 09-06-2003, 08:20 PM
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whatchootalkingabout b-1 ??

forgive him.....he beeez smokin' that wacky weed !!
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  #10  
Old 09-06-2003, 09:17 PM
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To each his own but what ever carbs you run DO NOT pump the Go peddle before starting unless you need to experince hyd lock but like I said if you cant pull the vac using DP'S would be like pouring gas down the intake. More fuel does not always = more HP. Sh!t I may have that wrong I'm of to the shop to put that old 390 holly on the riding mower LOL
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  #11  
Old 09-06-2003, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 23T


More fuel does not always = more HP.

IN FACT ...in sooooo many cases on the dyno and on ET runs .....a leaner mixture makes MORE power !!
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  #12  
Old 09-06-2003, 11:22 PM
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I ran my TR as a daily driver for about a year before I blew the trans. It was on a SB with dual Holley 450's. Good response, but mornings sucked as I had no chokes. Mechanical secondaries worked just fine. Hit 7000 RPM on that ole 318 and scared the ricers to the curb. Lot of fun and a lot of looks. Good thing I live close to work, 5.5 mph is not cheap today....
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  #13  
Old 09-07-2003, 12:14 AM
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As long as your ARE SURE that the cams torque curve comes on well before the convertors "stall" or "lock up" occurs, you'll be OK.

Smallish carbs (390,450,600, cu. in. pending), a quick mechanical advance curve and a well tuned air/fuel mixture setting will heed good results.

TR's actually have better fuel distribution/mileage since the carbs idle circuits are more centrally located. I've known several old street rodders that claimed BETTER fuel mileage, BUT they really were mizers when cruising. It's just that most people don't drive them with economy in mind.

So 390+390=780 with better fuel distribution. A healthy 440 can handle twin 450's easily.

And TR manifolds do vary, the Mopar M-1 is more race oriented. The old Weiand Stage II has longer/narrower passages for wht you want to do.
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  #14  
Old 09-07-2003, 10:08 AM
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Sounds like Mr. 'Glas is still shooting from the lip without any experience to back him up. A tunnel ran works great and it stands to reason that it would have better fuel distribution than a single four barrel. I made the mistake of suggesting to my friend that he put a pair of vacuum 750's (3310's) on his bracket race 440. As a test, we put it up against the converter to 5000 rpm and the secondaries never budged! We also used center squirter 660's (list 4224) on it and the throttle response was outstanding! Again, if I were you I'd use a pair of Double pump 600's or maybe 650's. The 4224's don't have power valves which is not too good for gas mileage.
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  #15  
Old 09-07-2003, 10:29 AM
sixpackgut sixpackgut is offline
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sundrop, listen to B-1 ken. i am building the same motor. i bought 2 660's off ebay for $250. the 450 dp carbs are cheap brand new and i would think the 600dp carbs would be cheap too.

i read in the new high performance mopar book by muscle motors that the weiand tunnel ram is actually to restrictive for racing but to me that translates into a good street intake.

it's the vacumm outboards on sixpacks that cause headaches. go with the DP.
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  #16  
Old 09-07-2003, 12:41 PM
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that is uNsane....to suggest that a small set of vac secondary carbs will not open up uNder load !!

Have I ever run a tunnel ram? NO....I already admitted that - BUT I know plenty of guyz who have. And MANY have run vac carbs.

Come on ken...because the carbs did not open up when UP on the converter .....saying that they will NEVER open up is uNreal !!
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  #17  
Old 09-07-2003, 12:55 PM
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I ran vac secondary holley 600's. From the passenger seat you could watch the diaphram move. Heck you could rev the engine with you hand slightly covering the primaries and check the function of the secondary diaphram... It works. Speaking from experience. 11.88 at 5200ft elevation.

my .02,

Greg

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  #18  
Old 09-07-2003, 09:01 PM
b-1ken b-1ken is offline
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That test was full throttle against the converter which had a stall speed of 5000 rpm. If the secondaries didn't move under those conditions, just how far down the track would you have to go before they did fully open? The ONLY reason that you might choose vacuum carbs is that they're cheaper. 3310's don't have secondary metering blocks either, so you can't change the jets in the secondary side. Again, unless you are just trying to save money, there is NO reason not to run double pump carbs.
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  #19  
Old 09-08-2003, 12:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by b-1ken
That test was full throttle against the converter which had a stall speed of 5000 rpm. If the secondaries didn't move under those conditions, just how far down the track would you have to go before they did fully open? ...
It could just be me, but it sonds like there was a problem with his carbs. If you use the same reasoning a 6-pack wouldn't work either???

I agree that the double pumpers will be faster, but probably less streetable (4 accelerator pumps everytime you move past .25 throttle). The secondary side of the 3310 is not jettable, but is adjustable. You just have to buy new blocks (flat piece bolted to the main body that I forget the name) or convert them to a jettable metering block.

No matter what carbs you pick, I like tunnel rams. Well.... it might look kind of silly with a couple of thermo quads on top, but I'm sure that it's been done.

Later,

Greg
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  #20  
Old 09-08-2003, 01:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by gsmopar


.... it might look kind of silly with a couple of thermo quads on top, but I'm sure that it's been done.

hey HAY....I resemble that remark !!

I have got a pair-o-small cfm ones going atop a TR furrr my v drive boat !!
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  #21  
Old 09-08-2003, 02:09 AM
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Sweet! Dare to be different!

I've seen a couple of Quadajets on one before, but never a couple of Thermo Quads... Cool!

Later,

Greg
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  #22  
Old 09-08-2003, 09:46 AM
b-1ken b-1ken is offline
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O.K. , I'll make a concession here. A pair of 600 (list 1850) might be O.K. The advantage with them is that they're CHEAP (I even have one or two of them lying around) and since they have the rectangular bowls and no metering block on the secondaries, they may be mounted front to back instead of sideways which makes the linkage a lot easier. The fact that GSMOPAR got them to open by revving the engine and holding his hand over the primary side doesn't tell me how quickly they'll open at full throttle. He was creating a false signal to the diaphrams by doing that. As far as the six pack with vacuum goes, they have very large diaphrams on the outboard carbs to supply sufficient force to open the throttles. I ran a six pack with vacuum carbs on my 440 '67 bracket race 'Cuda and they worked fine (after a bunch of modifications). The throttle response and performance was a lot better with a tunnel ram with two 660 center squirter carbs though. The name of the plate that substitutes for the metering block is called ... a metering plate. I know you can get replacements for these, or drill out the metering orifices, but it's lot easier to simply change jets.
P.S. There are a shit load of 'em (1850's) on E-Bay (I just checked). Just type in holley 1850 in the search box.
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  #23  
Old 09-08-2003, 05:57 PM
sundrop_440 sundrop_440 is offline
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thanks for all the help there's alot of info to digest here ,but I can handle that. the main thing is I can run on the street without too much grief. One question what is a center squirter? are you referring to the middle carb on a six pack or is it something else
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  #24  
Old 09-08-2003, 07:30 PM
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Center Squirters have the accelerator pump squirter in the center of all 4 venturies. I think the linkeage might be a 1:1 (could be wrong.. it's been a while). Great set up for a 2x4 tunnel ram on a race car. If the linkeage is progressive it should work well on the street.
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  #25  
Old 09-08-2003, 08:11 PM
sixpackgut sixpackgut is offline
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but the problem with center squirters is they cost $500 a piece for a new one as compared to arond $200 for a 600 DPumper. the center squirter are 1:1 and probably not to great on the street although i'm gonna try it.
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  #26  
Old 09-09-2003, 12:38 AM
sundrop_440 sundrop_440 is offline
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I just found a photo of a center squirter I see what you mean. what do you think about the new edelbrock thunder series It looks like you can adjust the secondaries opening tension
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  #27  
Old 09-09-2003, 07:06 AM
sixpackgut sixpackgut is offline
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if your talking about putting the edel thunder carb on a tunnel ram i think they are beautiful and i think they could work but they too are expensive and i think they are like 800cfm.
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