383 hard starting

[rguggisb]

I need some big help...The problem is my motor turns over REALLY hard. Once running, everything works great. To add to this frustration, it gets worse when the engine is HOT (i.e starts easier when its cold). After some experimenting by changing the battery, pos & neg battery cables and starter relay - this was all to no avail. Here's what I have:

383 stock build w/ 906 heads
MSD 6al and MP distributor
dual field alternator
high torque starter

I tried changing the voltage regulator last weekend. The engine started properly for the rest of the day but back to the SOS the next day. I've also noticed now that the factory in dash tach is erratic.

Any help or suggestions is appreciated!!!

Thanks!

[71383bee]

The tach is erratic because you are using a msd 6al. You need their tach adapter to make your tach work.

Hard starting could be many things, but stick with the simple stuff. What is the cars initial and total timing set at? Badly retarted timing can make a car run hot and start hard. Do you have headers and if so how close are they to your starter?

[dave571]

Have you got a starter draw reading?(probably not, as you need an inductive pickup, to do it.

Try using a voltmeter to see what the voltage drops too, when cranking. Just put it on the battery leads.

Usually what your describing is caused by incorrect ignition timing, or a problem with the starting system. You still haven't changed the starter, so that could be a fault.

[rguggisb]

71383bee - thanks for the quick reply!

The tach was rebuilt after the MSD was installed last summer. It was rebuilt to work with MSD and it did up until last Friday.

As fo the headers - not yet. I'm running HP manifolds.

Initial timing is at 16 and total is 32? (dist curved by cuda Don)

The car does not run too hot. Even in slow traffic on 95 degree day, the car does not go over 200.

Thanks for any more info!!

[rguggisb]

dave571- the starter actually has been replaced from the stock to MP hight torque unit. The only thing I can think of that hasn't been changed in the ignition circuit is the ignition key switch itself.

[71383bee]

Hmmm ok what compression are you running? Do you need octane boosters or anything like that? 16 sounds a bit high for a practically stock 383, but not unreasonable.

Did you try adjusting up or down and see if there is a difference?

[rguggisb]

Don't know exact compression, but should be about 9:1. I run pump gas without knocking. Moving the timing does not change anything.

[beepbeepsrule]

I know you stated that moving the timing dosen't change anything but the symptoms as described sure sound like too much initial advance. Sometimes the timing marks are not accurate. You might really be at 34 total and 18 initial with the as-stated 16 degree total advance curve. 34 total probably would not ping on 91 pump gas, so you would not know it was that much higher. So, if you think it is at 32 and is higher then the initial is higher than you think also. If the initial is really at or above 16 BTDC then it might be kicking back. That gets worse when the engine is warm. I haven't been able to get the initial much past 14 before I get the hot-engine kick-back problem on big block Mopars.

You may also be experiencing cross-over sparking inside the cap or between secondary wires, sending spark to the wrong place at the wrong time. MSD puts out a lot of spark and may be blasting the bejeezus out of your secondary wire circuit.

You could also have slipped the timing chain. That would make your timing marks off.

[dave571]

Bad starters come out of the box brand new all the time.

Recently had a rash of vw starters, that were bad. Changed 3 to find a good one.

Just a thought. Don't assume that because a part has been replaced it is good.

[ttraut@unlockit]

File this under "To a hammer, everything looks like a nail."

I'm going to take a different tack. You mention that "my motor turns over REALLY hard". Assuming that this ISN'T a mechanical problem, I'm thinking you might want to check your electronics. What is the voltage reading of your battery? It should be high 12s or low 13s (according to Don). Is it a relatively new battery?

How about your alternator? How old is the alternator? Is it one of those cheap rebuilds (like mine)? It may be bad. I am on my third rebuilt this summer and I don't drive my car much!!

I was having similar sounding problems with my 383. In fact, if you do a search by my username, I'm sure you'll get more than a few hits on this subject and see my troubles....

Here's my take on your problems:

First, take the battery and the alternator out of the equation by getting them tested at your local parts dealer.

Second, assuming that your battery is fairly new and that your alternator is generating the electricity needed to run your car (which it must be since you're obviously running the car after start-up), then I suggest that you may have some undesirable resistance in your charging circuit.

In other words, the alternator is getting the signal through the voltage regulator that the battery needs charging. Somewhere between the alternator and the battery there's a wire or guage causing problems. Check your ammeter connection. Check your aftermarket ammeter or voltmeter if you have those.

The best way to check is to use a DC voltage reader.

I traced my wiring back to my aftermarket ammeter which had toasted itself causing a drop of about 3 volts. My battery was never getting the charge sent to it by the alternator.

To further support my argument that this may be your alternator or battery, when left sitting, the battery will regenerate a bit of voltage which makes it seem like the engine's easier to start when cold -- the battery has more juice.

Good luck and let us know what you find out.

Terry

[360DARTGTS]

Try this one bud!!!!

This is my generic way to show a schematic of a ECU connector to explain how to test your system... sorry 'bout the cheesy drawing hope this makes sense.

-/2 3)
1
-\4 5)

#1 is the pointed side of the connector. #'s 3 and 5 are the radiused side of the connector that attaches to ECU.... I think this makes sense!?!

#'s denote connector pins


Here we go

1. remove the wiring plug from the control unit. (do this only while ignition switch is OFF)

2. turn the ignition switch on

3. ground the negative voltmeter lead.

4. connect positive lead to the #1 cavity. voltage should be within 1 volt of battery voltage with all accessories off. if not check the circuit through to the battery.

5. connect the voltmeter positive tothe #2 connector voltage should be within 1 volt of batter with all accessories off. if not check circuit through to the battery.

6. connect voltmeter positive lead to cavity #3. voltage should be within 1 volt of battery aith all accessories off. if not check circuit through to battery.

7. turn ignition switch off

8. connect OHMeter leads to cavities #4 and #5. the resistance should be 150-900 OHMs. if it isn't detach the dual lead connector from the dist. check the resistance of the dual lead connector. if it still isn't within the range replace the pickup coil.

9. connect one OHMeter lead to a ground and the other to either dist. connector. if the OHMeter shows a reading replace the dist. pickup coil.

10. connect one OHMeter lead to a ground and the other to connector #5 the OHMeter should show continuity. if not, remove and remount the control unit and check again. replace the control unit if no continuity can be established.

11. make sure the ignition switch is off and replace the control unit connector plug and the dist. plug

12. remove the center wire from the dist. very cautiously with INSULATED pliers and a very heavy glove hold the cable about 3/16" from the engine block and have the starter operated/ if there is no spark replace the control unit. try test again and if there is still no soark replace the coil.

Let us know the results!

[6 packin]

It sounds like a timing issue to me. Are you positve it has 16 intial? Was this checked with a good dial back timing light? Is the balancer slipped, was TDC verified? I bet is starts good or ok cold? Then its turns over slow when hot? Sounds likeyou may have 30 deg intial? Or its just a lazy/bad starter??

[rguggisb]

Thanks for all the replies!!

360DARTGTS - are you talking about the orange ECU box?? If so, me no have one - me have MSD.

As for timing, I've checked this several times with a digital dial back timing light.

I do have to check top dead center on dampner to make sure that that isn't the problem.

Thanks again for all the ideas and I'll keep you all posted!