Camshafts

[MAXAXE3]

I have read so many people here asking about camshafts.

Questions like - what lift to use, what duration, what cam is best, what cam builder is best, what cam to use in mine etc.

Camshaft opinions and experiences are as plentiful as Mustangs and A**holes, if you get the saying.

Bottom line to anyone that questions about a camshaft whether your a novice at performance building or a veteran is this:

First, without having every specification and information of YOUR particular engine and drivetrain - NO ONE can tell YOU what camshaft will give YOU the performance YOU WANT - no matter if its an off the shelf cam from a mass producer or a custom cam grinder. You have got to start at this point first.

Second, you need to be talking to several camshaft manufacturers to gather the information you need. You need to have all the information stated above when you call because they all will ask. You will also have to state what kind of performance you are looking for. YOU HAVE TO ABSOLUTELY TRUTHFUL when giving the information about your vehicle and drivetrain, what your using it for, and what you want out of it. Anything less than this information, and your wasting your time and will not get the performance you want. You will see why in a minute. You do not have to purchase anything they offer but you do need to be copying down the specifications they tell you for comparitive reasons. At this point, you now have to compare the specs to see how close they are - and how they differ for that matter. Now you have some professional information that you can go off of because that is where the cam is coming from, the manufacturer, not anyone on this website. Now it's up to you to choose, it's your cash and your vehicle.

Third, no matter what camshaft you finally decide on, and you have given all truthful information, and you have installed it per the manufacturers recommendations (which means to the novice builder to install the cam the way they say, do not attempt to advance or -- for gods sake -- retard the camshaft if you do not know what the effect will do or don't do - leave that to us veteran builders) you should have the performance you want.
If you do not, you need to contact the cam manufacturer for assistance - they (and I mean ALL of them) will help you in every way imaginable. They will not let you be unsatisfied (they won't come to your house and fix it - but I have had a few - not going to mention the manufacturers - meet me at the track or come over at national meets to see what was going on, and in one case help me pull it out, give me another cam, help me put it in and pay for my trouble - i could not beat that nor was i asking for that - thats how respectable they are).
Most of the time I find when I am working on another engine performance issue, I find the owner was either untruthful with the information, or they went and drastically changed something that the camshaft is not designed to work with. The camshaft is just a piece to the puzzle, not a magic stick or a cure for all your engine ills - it just a component.
Do not let anyone tell you any camshaft manufacturer is better than another because they are not. They all do research and development for their camshafts and they all have different ideas on what works best for a set criteria. What one person gets out of a camshaft may be very different than what you want and what combination you have. The variance is you the consumer on how you want to use it, what you want out of it, and does it give you what you want - that is it.

Fourth, this is only one camshaft. That means if you have a major change to your engine, drivetrain, CARBURATION you will have to get another cam to go with your new combination. Your cam that helped you run 13's will not help you run 11's and so on. And the cam that helped another guy run 13 whatever will not help you unless you have exactly what he had down to the last specification.

Lastly, For those that are street rides only, about the only thing your looking for is a nice loping idle - that's cool, i love it, I do it as well - but to cruise at 35, 45, or 55 mph either keep the cam in there you have or just tell the manufacturer you want a nice loping idle and don't care how it performs. I say that because unless you intend to base your vehicle performance at a timed drag strip, circle track, road course you have no idea how it performs. I cannot tell you how many supposedly bad a** street cars work their way to the drag strips to barely get in the 12's full out, and then start uncorking exhaust to run better to the tune of a few tenths. So bottom line is be honest, decide wisely, AND LISTEN TO THE MANUFACTURER YOUR BUYING THE CAM FROM.

[Windsor377]

Informative comments. Over the years I developed a "spreadsheet" with a set of algorithms to help me map cam lobe profiles against port flow characteristics. This has been a very beneficial tool and helps me predict within 2.5% hp and 1%where max hp occurs. I've found the HP prediction to be more difficult pending chamber/heat characteristic/strength etc.

The importance of keeping track of this type of information? It really helps with the overall combination. Header and manifold design in particular. If you don't know where the target is, you'll be lucky to hit it dead on.

I really recommend tracking and mapping information. Over the years, you'll be able to hit the nail on the head vs giving it a good rule of thumb approach. It's also, kind of fun to track this stuff too!

[rumblefish360]

Now thats the best post on cams I have seen in a long time if not they most truthfull and helpful comments on the subject!
THAT was hitting the nail on the head.
Asking for advice is good. But it does get an opion from most everybody.
As i have said many times, ask the grinder. Call a few of them up. See what they say. I can recomend you a cam. But thats it. Will it work as well as you hoped? Maybe, maybe not. It's allways a shot in the dark. It becomes a little lighter when you give very specific info, but the pro's are only a phone call away.

[atoetly]

You know I have only ran two different brands of cams in my dart. Mopar cams and Racer Brown. My current 440 has a racer brown cam and last winter when I was building this engine I told jim I wanted to run High nines with the car. It didn't make it my best pass today is a 10.11 @131mph. Is this the cams fault? Probably not. If I where to just switch cams and go with a different manufacturer would I pickup the three tenths I orriginally wanted? I'm not loyal to anyone cam manufacture they are not paying me to run their stuff. I agree with maxaxe3 check around and buy what you think is best for your app and wallet. If you want a loppy idle in your street car retard the timing.

[doungta1@aol]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MAXAXE3
[B]I have read so many people here asking about camshafts.

It's nice that you took the time to share your knowledge with others. I have a question. I'm sort of in the same boat but not with purchasing a cam. It's the entire engine.

I was looking at the 500CID short block that INDY advertises. I believe that it has an eagle crank, ross rods and wiesco pistons (just relying on my bad memory). I was hesitant because the INDY folks seemed to busy to talk with me. I'm one of those people that want to collect information for ever before making a decision.

I saw the B1 folks at the drag strip and followed up with a call. The guys were very nice and did not seem interested in closing a sale. He provided me with a lot of information and even took the time to respond to an e-mail.

One consequence is information can be overwhelming and that's the state that I'm in now. I decided to stick with my 30 over 440 with the SR top.

Any thoughts on the information above. Here's a little more information.

I have a 65 B body,
ladder bars, dana with 4:56
31 inch tires

Tubor action 727 with Turbo J convertor (flash up to 5500)
Row bar and tied chassie

Newly machined 440, 30 over with stell crank, stock reconditioned rods and heavy TR six pack pistons with a INDY SR top and dominator.

My objective is to limit the liability assoicated with the 30 year old rods and heavy pistons in the current short block. However, since I have about 3500 into the short block, I want to keep it together for a spare block. I have never driven or started the car. It is one of those 20 year projects that may never hit the strip. Every winter I get the hope that it will be ready for spring, and then I take on another big project.

After sharing your thoughts, one specific question I have is the Eagle, ross and weiso stuff all overseas junk or is it good quality for the 550 to 650 HP range?

[MAXAXE3]

doungta, you bring up a few good questions i'm sure some the folks that deal with big blocks can assist you with.

i build stick with the small blocks only, although you did mention speaking with Indy - and i'm sorry you had a bad experience with them, usually they are great to talk to - i'm really puzzled by that.

your question on what parts are better or not i think would fall in the same category as my camshaft explanation. you will get tons of opinions and recommendations but you have to decide what is best for your engine, your budget and your horsepower needs.

i can tell you what brands i have used, and really all of them are top notch stuff - that does not mean to me they are the the best or the greatest - there just doing what i want them to do and are doing it well - thats what matters.

remember this statement when buying partsthough:

"The sour taste of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of low price is gone"

[doungta1@aol]

Originally posted by MAXAXE3
doungta, you bring up a few good questions i'm sure some the folks that deal with big blocks can assist you with.

i build stick with the small blocks only, although you did mention speaking with Indy - and i'm sorry you had a bad experience with them, usually they are great to talk to - i'm really puzzled by that.

your question on what parts are better or not i think would fall in the same category as my camshaft explanation. you will get tons of opinions and recommendations but you have to decide what is best for your engine, your budget and your horsepower needs.

i can tell you what brands i have used, and really all of them are top notch stuff - that does not mean to me they are the the best or the greatest - there just doing what i want them to do and are doing it well - thats what matters.

remember this statement when buying partsthough:

"The sour taste of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of low price is gone"

Thank you for responding and the input. I want to apologize for writing something that sounded as though I had a bad experience. The INDY folks treated me fine. I bought the top end from them. I just have this need for enormous amounts of information and then get confused once I have it. They have a business to run and probably have a lot of people like me that may or may not ever buy anyting from them.

[Tarrbabe]

I had a Nova with a Super Stock Cam in it. Custom grind in it when I bought the car and don't have a clue of the specs. Someone had put a powerglide in it with 3.08 gears and it was worse than a dog in town. But at 2800 rpm the right rear tire would break loose and smoke. I soon went to a row boat and problem solved.
I had a 70 Chevelle ( 2 actually ) same motor. 350 with holly 650 and cheap headers. I had read that the real weak point in the stock set up was the lifters so I kept the stock cam and went with a new set of anti-pump up lifters. Engine pulled strong to about 5800 when I shifted ( again a row boat ) and went through the traps at 5800 with 4.56 gears in 3/8 mile strip. Yes it was an odd length strip. But in daily driving, it was sweet and ran on reg. gas.