Best body to dump the new hemi into?

[mannye]

I want to build a corner carving "restified" (don't worry...I'm pretty sure this is the right forum....I'm talkin' performance here)
Mopar.

I already have a numbers matching blah blah blah all original (getting there) Roadrunner, but soon (like in about a year) I will want to make that a real show only car, so I'll be wanting to make a daily driver that has some style.

I'm leaning towards a Challenger or Barracuda if I can find a six-banger or otherwise not worth restoring example of a ragtop and mod the heck out of it to make a modern muscle car...

Are there any others that I may want to look into?

I want good handling as well as speed, so I'll be modernizing suspension (tubular A arms and all that other good stuff) drivetrain (I really want to put the modern hemi in it with the auto tranny it comes with) and an entirely new and up to date interior... I will only have to shell out the dough for the suspension and drivetrain, becuase I am working on getting a TV show to pay for the interior and make the project part of the show. THe idea is to end up with a rice-eater in the twisties as well as the strightaways that is also a docile daily driver.

[Ausydad]

First thing that came to my mind is a 5.7 Hemi Daytona. About an '87-'89? Bodies are easy to come by and tube chassis aren't that expensive. It's the rear end and the cost of the newer Hemi that gets ya. Maybe you can find a newer one that has already been rear ended by an Exploder or something...

[Dartcustom]

67-69 Dart of course!

[mannye]

I actually really like the 69 Dart....especially if I can get a ragtop...I am partial to convertibles. But I would hate to carve up a nice ragtop Dart.

Wold the 5.7 fit? I understand it actually has B-RB mounts so it seems like a minimum of fab would be needed for any body that can take any of these engines....

[Dartcustom]

Well a convertible doesn't lend itself very well to corner carving, but would be cool. I am curious to see if the 5.7 will fit, it should!

When the 5.7 crates are readily available you should see companies offering swap kits galore.

[68fury]

Originally posted by mannye
I understand it actually has B-RB mounts

Is that right? Cool!

I also have been looking at this motor and waiting for them to start being available through salvage.

From what I've read on the motor its a superb corner-carver's power plant. I think it has to be a Dart - or a Plymouth Valiant, seems the Dart gets more glory than the Valiant does. As its going to be something different under the hood, something different on the name-plate too?

My own pipe-dream project was to stick one into a '63 or '64 Dodge 330. I don't have either the Hemi or the Dodge to do it in though...

Sounds like a cool project plan anyway, good luck, and report back... I am keen to see details on how people get on hot rodding with the new Hemi.

[909duster]

Nothing in the 5.7 hemi catalog are interchangalbe with any "rb" engine pieces at all.Chrysler doen't produce any vehicle with rb engines anymore why would the use an obsolete part in a modern vehicle. If you look a Hemi truck on a dealership lot you will see the mounts are almost to the rear of the engine block. Also 5.7 uses 16 spark plugs and no dist. 45rfe trans has a completely different bellhousing then anything in mopars past. The transmission is so large in shape you would have to remove and redisgn your floor boards to make it fit. Hemi trucks don't even use throttle cables it's fly by wire design. I don't think all the trouble and effort would be worth the end result. Will Mopar ever produce a 5.7 crate? They might considering 5.9L are not being made any more and those were used for the 300 and 380 horse crate motors. Mopar will have to take all these things and other pionts of view to make a crate package that will work in 60's and 70's type vehicles.

[mannye]

909Duster:I could be wrong about the mounting location...I have to try and find the article where I read that and post it...

As far as the trouble it would take.....take a look at your own signature...

Suppose the guy that stuffed that Viper engine in the Charger had listened to you?

Granted, I don't have 100K to dump in a fun car, but I think the effort to stuff a 5.7 Hemi in a Dart.....or Valiant...might be worth it.

Ragtop would flex too much to handle well? that IS a consideration...

[909duster]

The guy with charger had parts available from mopar. As of right now there aren't any parts available for the Hemis all parts are restricted and you'd better have a good reason to give to Mopar as to why your replacing parts, or they will laugh your ass of the phone. What you and others may not know about the charger is that Chrysler had a large interest in that car, because it debuted at SEMA in front of all the suits of the new DaimlerChrysler. As for my signature, common sense still rules afterall. I might change my signature to: it is best to be thought of as a fool, then to open ones mouth and remove all doubt.

[JayB]

I am completely behind you man, a 5.7 Hemi in a Dart would be excellent. I'm partial to the 70-72 Darts, after I finish my street car ('72 Swinger with a 402 Stroker, new age mods) I'm going to build a 70-72 Cruiser, I have information on how to chop it and make it a convertable, then a Mopar buddy of mine (I work at the local Dodge Dealership) said he didn't think it would be hard to modify a K memeber into the Dart... basically one would have to get ahold of a wrecked Dodge Ram and take EVERYTHING out from under the hood and underbody to make it work... but hell. I think it would be worth it.
Keep me informed on your workings as I'll probably be following your work after I get my 402 done.

[ehostler]

You can get the complete setup (engine, tranny, computer, mounts, etc) from http://www.hotrodlane.cc/

They will even sell you a supercharger for it.

[LA360Dart]

Hey all

These new 5.7l hemi is a strange beast. The computer shuts off cylinders at part throttle and cruise. Also this engine managment system also limits torque ( it's fly by wire after all ). Hearing from people who have tried to add headers and air intakes to no avail same performance, no increase of hp or torque. No substantiation of these facts of no increase in power. In talking with dealer mechanics they confirm the dropping of cylinders and torque limiting managment system, transmisson life is quoted as reason for torque limit. Also 4.7l magnum has similar softwear.

[mannye]

This is a brand new engine and while there not be any traditional bolt-ons at the moment, I'm sure it will only be a matter of time before someone figures out how to mod the new hemi.

In fact I saw a pickup in Mopar Muscle this month that had that blower on it. Is this the same setup that you are speaking about ehostler?

As far as Chrysler laughing at me if I try...whatever. I figure the hard part will be getting the thing in there with correct drivetrain geometry. The floor pan could be a deal breaker if the bellhousing is as big as you say, I may have to go to a B-Body or hang body panels onto a tube frame, which I want to avoid because it will get too expensive at that point.

I've already seen a web-page from some guy putting the hemi in a Prowler. I really think there is more room to maneuver in a 60's engine bay than the Prowler's. The ticket may be to employ the Prowler transaxle in the build...Here it is:

http://members.shaw.ca/moparmania/featurepersonal.htm

I'll be giving this guy a call for some pointers.

[mdeane]

I would be extremely careful about buying any complete 5.7 Hemi from a source outside of Mopar at this time. There are people inside Chrysler that say that several dyno motors were stolen from the test center and if these are some of those, you could be responsilble for buying stolen goods if it is true.

It is also not possible right now to assemble a motor from pieces because Mopar has several major components on restriction which means they can't be purchased without first talking to a Mopar tech inside Chrysler and giving specific reasons for the purchase of each part (a big hassle).

[ehostler]

Considering the place that I mentioned is known nationally and advertises in several magazines, I am sure that DC would know if they were selling stolen engines.

As far as the limiting on the computers goes, this place reprograms the computers. This does a good job of removing the limits that Chrysler had to put in them. The limits weren't because of the transmissions. The limits had much more to do with emissions and the fact that the 5.7 is real close on the NOx limits.

The partial cylinder deactivation shouldn't be in the computers until the '04 computers. The '02 & '03 computers did not do this. In any case, it is only at idle. As soon as you go off idle, all cylinders are supposed to come back up.

[mannye]

What is this, Wet Blanket Central?

There are millions of reasons NOT to do this. I could just wait and see if the Charger becomes a reality, for example.

But that's not the point. The point is to overcome all the difficulties and make a really cool Mopar using today's tech with yesterday's styling....and if I can whip a couple of "tuners" at the same time, then that's an added bonus.

It would be easier and cheaper to just pick up an SRT-4, but where's the fun in that?

I will be working on this over the next year once I can find a suitable body.

Damn the torpedos...full speed ahead!

[mdeane]

Maybe you didn't understand me my information is from DC.

[ehostler]

and your point is???

[mdeane]

If I really have to spell it out for you !! Lay down a lot of money, spend a lot of time, and chance losing it all.

Is it really worth it?

[GaryS]

I saw the '55 Ford truck with the Hemi and talked to the owner for about a half-hour. According to him, they are doing a lot of the parts development for the aftermarket and are working closely with Mopar Performance engineers.

He also said the bell housing pattern is the same as the LA, but he had a 5-speed Mercedes automatic in his truck, so I don't know if he was correct about that or not.

[mannye]

Y'know....the question was.....

WHAT BODY WOULD YOU PUT THE NEW HEMI INTO....

not

GIVE ME A MILLION REASONS NOT TO USE THE NEW HEMI..

Some of us like to take a chance once in a while...if it doesn't work, I don't have to dig a hole in the backyard and bury the motor.... I CAN ALWAYS SELL IT TO SOMEONE ELSE...

Will I take a slight loss? Maybe. IS IT YOUR PROBLEM? NOOOOO!

How about instead of just being negative nellys AT LEAST offer SOMEthing besides... "Ain't gonna work....Nope."

And now....stolen engines...gimme a freaking break.



And if you go outside you may get hit with lightning...STAY INSIDE.

[Dartcustom]

Mannye, there are always people to rain on someones parade, nevermind them, do what you want. Of course it is do-able, and cool idea too. Stolen motors? what does that have to do with the question in your first post? give the "Negative Nelly's" the finger and go for it!

[mannye]

Thanks Dart,

SO.... from a performance point of view...

Dart/Valiant or Cuda/Challenger?

I like both shapes...I've always thought of the Dart/Valiants as baby Roadrunners (1968-69 models) and the Cuda/Challenger (70 - 73) sre nice because even 30 years later they look contemporary...

Now as far as balance, handling, weight distribution (this will probably change a bit because of the swap) which would do better? Someone also mentioned the later models Daytonas...I don;t know a lot about them, but I will do some looking..

I'm partial to a late 60's -early 70s ragtop, but will look at other suggestions...one never knows..

[Moulder]

I think using a dart to mock a 69 Road Runner with a fiberglass liftoff hood would be neat. 14 or 15 inch black steelies and all. I bet this car would make people look twice.

[ehostler]

Originally posted by mdeane
If I really have to spell it out for you !! Lay down a lot of money, spend a lot of time, and chance losing it all.

Is it really worth it?

Like I said, this company has a very strong reputation in the hotrod community. They would not risk that reputation by selling stolen engines.

If you feel so sure that you are right, please feel free to report them to DC and to the FBI.

All of their information (business name, address, phone number, etc) are available on their website. The website is www.hotrodlane.cc

[ehostler]

Originally posted by GaryS
He also said the bell housing pattern is the same as the LA, but he had a 5-speed Mercedes automatic in his truck, so I don't know if he was correct about that or not.

The Mercedes 5 speed is the same unit that will be behind the 5.7l Hemi, when they drop it into the new RWD platform cars. It is a strong tranny and won't require a massive tranny tunnel.

[GaryS]

Yes, I know it's the LX transmission, but the Chysler versions are not on the market yet. I was making the point that he is working with Chrysler to obtain cutting-edge parts and info, not stealing test engines. The question I had was if the bolt pattern is the same as the SB Mopars. Even though he said it, I'm not totally convinced.

The truck owner is an electronics guy and did all the computer integration by himself. He is working on a engine/transmission stand-alone computer for the aftermarket.

HIs application used standard Chevy mounts and he said that part of it was a drop-in. The power steering pump was also GM, because the Mopar unit put out too much pressure to use with the Mustang rack and pinion.

The headers were custom bent by a guy in their shop and are being used by MP to design parts for their crate engine.

Accessory brackets and chrome/polished aluminum dress-up parts are in work and will shown at the SEMA show, as will a Challenger with a new Hemi. He said the Challenger will be featured in 5 magazines this winter.

[mdeane]

Not trying to rain on anyone's parade, just thought I would offer a word of warning that was given to me by the people inside DC who are currently investigating the matter.

I agree that the 5.7 Hemi would be a great powerplant to use if you are willing to be on the leading edge of parts development and willing to spend a lot of time with fitting and testing. After all it's not like the 60's and 70's where you could just perform an engine transplant and only have minor fitment problems.

[ehostler]

I have contacted S&P and they assured me that they get the 5.7l engines directly from Chrysler. They said that it too a lot of work to do so, however, that is where they are getting their supply of engines and transmissions.

[ehostler]

S&P is custom fabricating the correct mounts for the specific applications.

I think that anyone here with more than a 5th grade education know that this isn't just a simple engine swap. Thae fact is that it can be done, if you have the will power and abilities to do it.