Stage 6 or Eledbrock heads

[bishop]

I've been reading alot of opions about about Eledbrock heads but what do some of you think of how they compare to MP stage 6 heades. I'm building a 472 low deck with a .590 cam going in a 71 demon to pay around on the street with.

Brian

[6 packin]

I think the Eddys are better box stock than the stage 6 maxi head. But there is much more potiential with the stage 6 heads than factory casting. The Eddys offer little imporvment with port work, there was a article a month or so ago about ported Eddy heads, very little gain was netted. If was going to break the bank for a set of stage 6 heads, I would just go with Indy's 440-1 heads which really in comparsion with the latter two heads there is no comparison, as for power making potiential, but the costs is much more two. The eddys are a bolt on, you need to find out what valve train and other things maybe purchased to make things work.

[ehostler]

Unless it is going to see a lot of strip time, I would go with the EB heads. A pair of complete EB heads will cost about the same as one bare stage 6 head. The stage 6 head is crap, out of the box and needs a good machineing, before use.

[sixpackgut]

i just got done reading in the new mopar B/RB engine book how ray barton did a 5 minute clean up of the bowls on the stage IV head and they flowed just as good or better than the Indys up to 6-700 lift. plus if you plan on putting that solid cam in you will need to put double valve springs, new retainers and 10* locks put into the eddies so there goes machining on either head you choose. the stage IV heads require an intake spacer or an intake designed for the IV. actually your building a low deck so an RB intake bolts right on although you need to gasket match the intake to maxie ports.

[sixpackgut]

ooppps. insert VI where i put IV. Thank You

[J-BODY]

I'm a stage VI user. Waaaayyy back in the day when the only alternatives were high cost 440-1 Indy's, and Koffels B-1's the introduction of the stage VI was a godsend. True they were not an "out of the box" head, and the early castings had many issues that were later taken care of, but they were a rather good building block (read: pay for porting) for whatever purpose you intend. I saw a local racer using them and he was running in the nines with a pretty low maint combo. I knew (or I thought I did) that I would never need that kind of power in my search for low elevens so I bought a set from Muscle Motors with a mild port job. They served me well and were on the engine for seven years. On my last freshen I had major porting done along with removing some deck and head surface to tighten things up. Car has run a best of 10.18 and this is in an all steel 1980 Mirada. I believe with a little tweeking I may see a nine this fall. Anyways.....in this day the stage VI is old news. If you are truly looking just to "play around on the street". The E-brock would be your best bang for the buck. If you are looking for something more I personally would go with the Indy SR. They have a smaller port than the 440-1's but have a ton of potential in ported form. The SR's would also cost quite a bit more, but you wannna play....you gotta pay.

[DartGT66]

As an old Stage VI user, and having used many other aftermarket BB heads too (except B1-BS's and Brewers) just backing up what J-body said. In my opinion the Stage VI's are not a very cost effective choice. Edelbrocks are pretty good out of the box, most other heads need some work. That's why I can understand the Barton statement; do the same work to the Indys and the Stage VI's propably never come even close.

[MOPARBYFAR]

My heads according to Edlebrock flow 278/206 @ .500", after I prepped them for about 11 hours they flowed 296/220 @ .500 and .300 Edlebrock claims 209/160 and mine flow 224/183. I am not by no means a pro at it but good gains can be got on 'em.

[MOPARBYFAR]

I have since Xtrude honed 'em and didn't have a chance to have 'em flowed again. They look SSSWWEEEEEEEETT, and I am gettin' good power #s w/ them.

[JCFcuda]

I like my VIs but the Quallty issues bother me.Ported I think the 6s have a good edge (with the raised intake ports) even more when used on a b block. but bang for your buck the Eddes are the ones to buy.
I've seen quite a few 440-1 engines and i haven't really been inpressed with most of them.They are suited for big NOS systems, 14to 1 and 700 plus rollers, if not they run like pigs. This of course doesn't take in account everything else that makes the car run.


Jim

[Luther]

Another Stage VI user agrees:

... but bang for your buck the Eddes are the ones to buy

Years ago the Stage VI heads were about the only decent streetable aluminum head available. However, it took a fair amount of porting to make them really come alive. Different story today. Go with the Eddes.

[ehostler]

Another head to look at is the Bulldog head that Hughes is going to be selling. It is a 75cc chamber with a superior port design. It is about $600 more than the EB, however, even after $600 woth of head work on the EB, the Bulldog is supposed to outflow the EB.

http://www.hughesengines.com/general/new_head.asp

I also know that one of the members of this board is going to be selling them as well. I just don't remember who.

[DartGT66]

Originally posted by JCFcuda
I've seen quite a few 440-1 engines and i haven't really been inpressed with most of them.They are suited for big NOS systems, 14to 1 and 700 plus rollers, if not they run like pigs. This of course doesn't take in account everything else that makes the car run.


Jim

Well' we've got two sets of 440-1's and I'm pretty happy with them. Both are in a street car with stock style suspension and run pump gas. The other set is on a seven years old 451 short block and sits in a '75 Dart SE 4 D. It run 10.01/138.4 weighing 3100 lbs without exhaust pipes. This is pretty much comaprable with our ported (230cc intakes) Stage VI's in a '69 Valiant, but with a 499 short block that run 10.15/134.4. The cam etc was teh same on both engines. And my 528 run 9.69/142.5 weighing 3310 lbs with SS springs, pump gas and ET Street tires. If that's a dog, then I guess it is. Currently the engine is in a 3500+ lbs car with a mild cam and 3.23 gears and it run 10.66/132.5 mph with a slipping converter, through four mufflers and in a complete journey trim. In this kind of engines one single good part like head is not making a lot of difference if everything else wasn't just waiting for those heads. It's more a matter of combination than a greatness of a single part. We have played the most with the Stage VI's, and according to our experience they do not match the performance available with either Indys or B1's with pump gas. Maybe, if the engine is smaller than the 451 it could better use the small ports and that could be an advantage.

This doesn't mean that they are bad heads, they have hteir place which is about the same as the place of the Edelbrocks. The Edelbrocks only cost about half of the price of the Stage VI's and can be used out of the box with good results.

[JCFcuda]

Dart

If you read the post I said Most Not all. You run some impressive numbers, but your a little far away to go see you run. I also stated " Its everthing else" its the whole package. The ones i have seen have not run well , unless they were running what i stated in the above post.
Bishop asked about a street driven Demon 470 with a .590 cam
If you think that 440-1 on top of that engine will make it perform better thats your opinion. Mine is that with that setup the car will have better drivability and will run as fast or faster with the Edds and have a couple thos in your pocket for something else.


Jim

[DartGT66]

Actually I was a little worried about how they would work in the 451 since the port window is considerably bigger in the 440-1's than in the Stage VI's that was used on it before. Seems to work just fine. I was even more worried about B1's working in a pump gas application, but that seems to work too. Will possibly go to dyno with both the Indy equipped 451 and the B1 499; the 451 has been dynoed earlier with the Stage VI's and a M1 SP, so there might be a possibility for a straight comparation. BTW, it wasn't a dog with the Stage VI's either pushing 649 hp at 6000 rpm and 612 ft/lb at 5000. Low end torq was pretty good too with 450 ft/lb at 2000 and above 500 at 2700. I believe the power band now is at higher rpm and the low end tq may now be a bit less.

[J-BODY]

Many different points of approach can be made for head selection, and many seem to defy our beliefs. I too have noticed many 440-1 combos at the track that really don't seem to be "working" to there expected potential. There again as mentioned above, it has alot to do with the total package rather than one magical piece. Maybe some of the oldtimers here (damn! I'm starting to fall into that group!) remember the old Chrysler Power magazine. They had a set of indy 440-1's they played around with on a Dart race car. On there final project before returning them, they put them on their one ton Dodge dually. They were really pleased and surprised at how good the heads worked on their daily driver pull vehicle. I'll throw this out just for information. I had Dwayne Porter do my stage VI's and we ended up with flow numbers from 299.4 to 318 (from .500 to .650) on the intake side. They even made it to 320 at .700. The stage VI can be made to work and was just another dropped ball by Mopar Performance. They had alot of good ideas when they made the heads. They just did a poor job in presenting them. I however agree with JCF. When someone comes up and posts "best bang for the buck" "street driven" ".590cam" that pretty much screams "EDELBROCKS!!".

[jleilich]

i was in the same situation last year, basicly it came down to what i was going to use the car for, Racing or street driving. im not saying one is more steetable than the other. but if i was going to be racing more and wanted to spend lots of money on prorting i would have gone with the stage 6 heads. but i was more concered about saving cash and just driving my car and an occasional run downt the track. I was shooting for low 12 second times when i built my engine. i didnt get what i wanted.. It runs high 11's

[gelvik]

My engine builder prefers Indy SR heads over the Edelbrocks and the Edelbrocks over the Stage VI heads.
He has made good power out of all three(one example is a 695HP 440 with Stage VI's).
The Stage VI heads required the most work of any head he works with whether it be porting or helicoiling the rocker gear bolt holes.
The price of the stage VI heads ran well past the price of the SR heads and he can get another 40+ cfm on the intake out of the SR's over the Stage VI heads with equal porting.
The Edelbrocks are able to flow nearly as good or better than the Stage VI heads for less money.