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  #1  
Old 10-24-2003, 10:38 PM
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pishta pishta is offline
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Default Anyone running a mag?

I got one cheap and im going for the nostalgia look. It kicks like a mule on the test stand, arcing a good 1/4 inch when I turn the shaft by hand. Only experience I have with them is all the old 30's Lincolns and Caddys in my boss' collection plus his 455 Olds jet boat have them and they still work! Ill run solid core wires because I cant hear my radio anyway. Any thoughts. good or bad. I still have my electronic MP/MSD setup, but it looks out of place with all the other stuff.
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  #2  
Old 10-25-2003, 05:38 PM
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dwc43 dwc43 is offline
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I have not run one other than in a boat. And all small aircraft use them too. THEy will out preform any other ignition system, I do know that. And the faster you turn them the hotter and longerthe spark gets. Hope it works out mice for ya.
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  #3  
Old 10-25-2003, 06:26 PM
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Mister Fiberglass Mister Fiberglass is offline
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From what I know of these - that kind of spark you are getting hand cranking it - it should perform quite nicely for you !!

I would like to find TWO of them....one for the dragster and the v drive boat. It would simplify the electrical system a tad.
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  #4  
Old 10-25-2003, 11:04 PM
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pishta pishta is offline
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Cool, thats what I was looking for. I saw a few OLD reliability advertisements showing fire trucks and taxis using them so I knew they would be streetable. I like the cap too, makes the plug wires look somewhat manageable all coming out the same side (rear)
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  #5  
Old 10-26-2003, 10:40 AM
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Except for that advance mechanism, vacuum spark, inexpensive tune-up and tiny plug gap, because the voltage at cranking speed is lower than a conventional Kettering system.
BTW: mags fire 4 of the plugs with reverse ground. Which 4 cylinders do you want to have only 60% voltage?
Yes, they do use them on 6000 hp motors. I don't have one of those.
They certainly don't out perform a black box in a gasoline installation.
Reliable: fire stations and cab garages had their own spares and full-time mechanic. Try asking the AAA tow truck driver if he has a set of points or rotor with him. Try asking at the gas station if they have one. Try NAPA.
If it stops, you're toast.
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Old 10-26-2003, 06:57 PM
John Kunkel John Kunkel is offline
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The need for the narrower than normal plug gap is the hint to how inefficient mags are.
Their only advantage is being self contained.
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Old 10-26-2003, 07:08 PM
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On the down side they take a tremendous amount of HP just to turn them.(I have heard 15 H.P. or more) Modern electronic Ign. systems take far less torque to turn (less parasitic loss of HP)
A friend of mine who runs a blown Alcohol Hemi swears by them.( and goes 170 mph in his drag boat!)
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Old 10-26-2003, 07:56 PM
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Mister Fiberglass Mister Fiberglass is offline
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what ARE those typical voltage numbers??......at low and high speed.
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  #9  
Old 10-26-2003, 11:16 PM
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Panic, Im interested in the 4 plugs at 60%. what 4 plugs? Is it in the design that 1/2 are weaker (maybe hi-lo-hi-lo...) Small gap is for starting at low RPM's, but the spark gets stronger as the RPM's go up. A Coil spark gets small as the revs get higher due to the shorter charge time. Is a coil spark comparable to a mags spark in the sense that the coil has to work with a fixed voltage and the mag has a variable voltage? Or is it all in the amperage? Im not an electrical engineer, but inquiring minds want to know...
I was told the condenser is the same as a regular distributor (low replacement cost) and the points trip a smaller amount of juice so they stay fresh longer ( a swipe with a point file is all that is needed to freshen up) Of course this is all from a mechanic that cut his teeth on V-16's and straight 8's but he is a wealth of info on this old stuff.
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Old 10-26-2003, 11:50 PM
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4 alternate positions on the cap fire reverse ground, AFAIK. Back when, even the lower voltage was more than a Kettering or breaker system made, so it didn't matter.
I wouldn't go with "same condenser", all the mags I know of are very different, larger, lots more $$, and get replaced frequently.
Yes, the voltage goes up with rpm (so does power required to drive it), but this means easy fouling at low speed, small gap and hard starts.
Supposedly, some were made with "normal" centrifugal advance mechanism. Is yours?
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  #11  
Old 10-27-2003, 01:58 AM
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Yeah, it is a Ronco/Vertex that has a centrifigal advance in the bottom, looks alot like a slotted advance of a regular sparker. I get what you are saying the alternate firing, but that is what the points are for, to discharge the spark at the proper time in the cycle. You are saying that it sparks on both "sides" of the wave. Could it be built so it had enough poles that the points would fire it on only one side of the wave, or would that not be that important? Interesting stuff for a 60 year old design. As for the condensor, ill stick to the Taylor/Vertex replacement part. Too pricey to skimp on replacement parts if it ever goes bad. I wonder what the MTBF of the condensor is?
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Old 10-27-2003, 04:08 PM
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Never had a mag on a scope so I can't give voltage figures but I have another method of rating them. I have been nailed by about every type of ignition system going, HEI, CDI, etc. If you have ever been the recipient of the output of a mag you have no doubts about which type of ign system has the "reach out and touch you" capabilities. Raced a H-D for years with a Fairbanks Morse mag and that damned thing could nearly take your arm off!
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  #13  
Old 10-28-2003, 12:09 AM
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I turned the shaft about as fast as a top on a pickle jar and it hit me so hard I almost dropped it. I can imagine the jolt at RPM. An MSD hits you multiple times, that is no fun either.
There was an 8 stroke farm engine on display (strange motor, spit,yada yada,suck,yada yada,pop yada...damn, sounds like something else...) anyway the mag was off a rocker arm and that thing was just bobbing along at about 1/2 cycle a second and it was enough to fire a plug.
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  #14  
Old 10-28-2003, 12:53 PM
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Pishta, lots of oil wells around here and quite a few are "variable cycle" type one lungers. They hit every other time like a normal engine when loaded (pulling up on the pump rod) then don't fire for ? revolutions on the down stroke while the flywheel carries it. Kind of a pop pop pop then wheeze wheeze wheeze etc. till it gets a load against it and starts the popping again. Back on the mag thing, been told by people that should know that a mag has a considerable amount of amperage along with the voltage compared to battery/coil type ignitions. Like I said earlier, they don't just give you the round eyes/dark spot in your drawers type jolt, they hurt.
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Old 10-28-2003, 01:06 PM
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Well, the Vertex is the class of the field, or so I've heard. Excellent quality control and materials. The advance makes it a lot more streetable. I don't know of a successful conversion to same-polarity that doesn't involve $$$, but it seems to work anyway.
Try it out - if you can live with it, so much the better.
I understand the points are really sensitive to oil film, fingerprints, etc. (like a halogen bulb), so it the cap is vented be sure the vent doesn't point to a valve cover gasket!

We're trying to convert an empty Wico mag body to electronic (hall sensor) for use in a 1940 Harley-Davidson to keep the original appearance.
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  #16  
Old 10-29-2003, 02:15 AM
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OK. Ill let you all know how it works. That WICO conversion sounds like fun. Mu buddy has a Shovel that has a mag on it and he just rotates it a bit to start and then rotates it back when it is running. Taylor/Vertex has a "fake" mag on their site now that has modern electronics in it for the street rodder.
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