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  #1  
Old 11-07-2003, 10:03 AM
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Help NET and SAE Horsepower

Can anyone tell me the difference between NET Horsepower and SAE horsepower?

My Dodge Diplomat 1979 has 140 Horsepower. Anyone knows how this was measured? on the rear wheels? trans, without accecories?

My Dyno 2000 tells me it has ca 180 horsepower

Hoping for an answer
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  #2  
Old 11-07-2003, 10:22 AM
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Before '72, gross power was measured on an engine dyno when there was no accessories attached at all. And then they picked another number for insurance reasons.
Starting in '72, engines were measured with SAE net ratings on an engine dyno, and all their accessories attached.

Power ratings dropped some with all those accessories, but the numbers are a more accurate representation of the power you're getting. Instead of stripping the engine down of everything just to tell you higher numbers, they tell you the truth.

Your Diplomat was probably measured at the flywheel. Take it to a dyno and see how much it really makes now.
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Old 11-07-2003, 12:29 PM
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The story goes like this, an engine was picked from the line, torn down and blueprinted, then run in a temp and humidity controlled dyno cell w/o any accessories for the SAE rating. The net rating is a random selection from the line as installed in a vehicle including accessories like w/p, p/s, ac, etc.
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  #4  
Old 11-07-2003, 12:56 PM
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Ok.

thats good information.

If I take my car to a Dyno, I will know the horsepower on the rear wheels


how much horses does a 904 trans. and an rear axle take in % (cirka)

but 140 horsepower is ridicully for an 5.2 litres engine?
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Old 11-07-2003, 10:28 PM
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gotta remember smog control on that car...low compression restrictive heads and small camshaft all combined to rob the potential output from that 5.2.

u can get more outta it...but will take some money and work...

most people round here will tell ya if ur wanting power ditch the 318 and find a 360/340 to drop in...those stock are better then the 5.2...

and if ur gonna do a build up its easier do it to a 360/340 as well...more bang for the same buck.

but yea ur 5.2 is weak...they all were it was a general purpose v8...never meant to be a power house..tho it can be.

if ur planning a build up do a search for my thread called "some questions" it was on page 7 or 8 here last time i looked for it...lotsa good info to be read imho.

the thread with some 318 info
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  #6  
Old 11-08-2003, 05:11 PM
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I agree with SK there. Check out that thread I left a lot of good info posted on there about these engines. They can be made to run quite easily for little money. Just read a mopar mag article where they took a stock recon reman 318 and stock heads and got 300 hp and 344 ft lb torque out of it. And it only got a cam,headers,intake and carb added to it.
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Old 11-08-2003, 07:38 PM
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yea. thats sounds great.

Since I live in Norway, gasoline is VERY expensive!

but anyway, I want to beef the engine up a little.

In norway engine are not cheap, so swapping the 318 for an 360 will cost a lot of money, so I'll rather use my money on the 318. after all its 5.2.

1 gallon costs 4.78 dollar if my calculatios are right.....

My plans for so long:
(this is a completely stock engine)

New camshaft:
edelbrock performer plus
New carbuerator:
Edelbrock 500 og 600. what do you think? 500 or 600
New intake:
Edelbrock performer intake

but headers? i havent found any headers thats fits my Dodge Diplomat 79. any suggestion? the problem is if it is space for it.

hoping for thoughts
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  #8  
Old 11-08-2003, 07:48 PM
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HEre's what you need to make a runner out of hte 318. Mill your stock heads .035 if you want to. Next get a Weiand Action plus intake since it is the best for your small block set up. Next get a stock thermoquad 4bbl. The 600 is too small and the holleys and carter square bore carbs are not as throttle repsonsive as the thermoquad is. Another big plus is that if you keep your foot out of it the tq carb will give you better gas millage than anyone of them will. I can get them new from Advance Auto for aournd 189 each. If you dont have Advance Auto stores over there you can order it from them over the net too. Next get you a dual pattern cam from comp cams. It needs to be around 268 intake and 272 exhaust duration. Cant remember the lift. It needs help on the exhaust side so dual pattern cams work well in these engines. Also order a set of 1 5/8 tube Hooker or Hedman headers. Just order a set that fits F,M, and J bodies. Also know as Volare's,Aspens and these will fit your car. Also get a merge X pipe from www.drgas.com with 2 1/4 exhaust pipes with flowmaster mufflers. This is what you need to make it work like you want it to. The merge X piep is worth 20 to 40 extra hp depending on your combo so dont leave it out.
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  #9  
Old 11-08-2003, 08:01 PM
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since I am depending on the car for daily use, and am not an experienced mechanic, the choises are getting lower of what I can do.

what I can do is:

camshaft, intake, carb, and maybe headers till the summer
this is things I can fiks in a few weekends

gas mileage is important, thou not to inmportant. if it was, i had drove arond in an Toyota corolla! I will not do that!
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Old 11-08-2003, 08:08 PM
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Well, what I layed out is what you need and seems to be well within your grasp for doing it over the weekend too. The thermoquad is 800 cfm and came stock on the 318,340,and 360 and it will give you plenty of power with decent millage. I think you will be more than happy if you install the combo I listed above.
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Old 11-08-2003, 08:29 PM
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how much wil this combo get me without the headers (must take that later) and the milling if my heads?

I will take headers on later on.
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Old 11-08-2003, 08:34 PM
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Without the heads and exhaust an easy 300 hp at the crank. I would estimate.
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  #13  
Old 11-08-2003, 08:37 PM
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from 140 HP to about 300 without loosing to much of my mileage?

thats incedible!

I'll go for your config!

but I will not get idle trouble will I?

and my 904 trans? will I break it?
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  #14  
Old 11-08-2003, 08:41 PM
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With a dual pattern cam it will sound a little lumpy or racey, but the idle will be fine. I have run a cam like this bfore on the street and it makes good power and idles and drives fine. The A904 should hold up until you can upgrade to an A727 tranny. Do you have the 8 1/4 rear axle. If it's a 7 1/4 I would worry about it. It is much weaker than any A904 tranny and would be the first thing to fail.
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Old 11-08-2003, 08:56 PM
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I have the 8-1/4 axle with sure grip.

I have no plans of racing the car, but with so much volume its nice to have an "little extra" sometimes. this is an family car.

the Idle, cold start and relalibity is important
(sorry for my english. )

I have Dyno 2000 and
have enteres in data.
for an engine with standard heads and performer plus camshaft, 800 carb, . the result is now 226Hp at 4600rpm and 263 with small headers with muffler

thats an good advance !

( its what I have of data right now)

the termoquad, is it holley? (im lookin at advance auto parts but cant find it)
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Old 11-08-2003, 09:01 PM
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The 8 1/4 ill hold up nicely then. Also dont hold that dyno program to the numbers. It's a good tool to use like enter a base line and then judge the gains as you add stuff to the engine, but the numbers are no where near accurate since there are so many variables to consider. The thermoquad is made by carter.
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Old 11-08-2003, 09:08 PM
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Yes. I guess thats right. but its an nice way of estimating gains.

the Auto shop will not send to the outside of USA. I Guess i living in the wrong Country.

Too bad......
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Old 11-08-2003, 09:10 PM
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Advance auto wont ship outside U.S. ?? Well, if you want one you could send me a check including the shippings and I'll pick one up at our local store and send it to you if you like.
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Old 11-08-2003, 09:14 PM
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That would be nice.

can you send me your email adress?

I have 2 Dodge diplomats for the moments. I'm selling 1 now so I'll be honest with you and can not buy before I receive the money from that car. But we can stay in contact, and I can send you an check when I get the sale in order?
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Old 11-08-2003, 09:20 PM
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E mail me at ********************
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