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Old 02-16-2004, 02:13 PM
custom880 custom880 is offline
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Default Some education please

I could use a little education please. This past weekend while munching on some wings at a local bar the discussion of NOS on cars came up. I have never messed with it and I must admit I only have even seen it on a Mopar once. I kind of know the basics of it, but I am not sure of the exact area the power is derived from. Is it the extra flamable material (nitros) that is being injected that burns hotter, or is it the nitros makes the fuel itself burn better? The whole reason it came up is a friend wondered if Hydrogen could replace nitros since Hydrogen is so flamable. To be honest I really dont know much about either element other than Hydrogen isnt something you want to mess around with.
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Old 02-16-2004, 03:19 PM
Helvedere6617 Helvedere6617 is offline
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Nitrous itself isn't really flamable. When Nitrous is mixed with the other elements in a engine, it breaks down to form oxygen. And we all know oxygen promotes burning. Basically, nitrous just helps your motor run harder and faster by creating more oxygen inside your motor.
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Old 02-16-2004, 03:53 PM
riquiscott riquiscott is offline
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Don't forget that the extra oxygen that comes from the breaking down of the nitrous oxide molecule has to be combined with extra fuel, or you'll get a severely-lean condition and damage your engine very quickly.
There are two major types of nitrous oxide systems on the market, "wet" and "dry". The wet type injects both nitrous oxide and fuel into the airstream, in a pre-measured ratio. The dry type injects only nitrous oxide, relying on the car's fuel injection computer to compensate with extra fuel. The dry type is the least expensive and easiest to install, but is limited as to how much power you can gain, and needs to be used with a computer-controlled fuel-injection system so the necessary extra fuel will be added automatically.
Nitrous oxide injection adds power simply by introducing more air/fuel mixture to the combustion chamber than you would normally be able to get in there. Also, the compressed nitrous oxide cools the fuel/air mixture significantly. You've felt an aerosol can get cold when you use it? The compressed nitrous oxide does the same thing when it comes out of the bottle and goes into the nozzle.
Scott Gardner
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Old 02-16-2004, 04:06 PM
Helvedere6617 Helvedere6617 is offline
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Good point. A very lean motor would not be good. One thing I think you should have mentioned about the two types of kits is that the dry kits are very unstable and are dangerous. There is risk with nitrous anyways but more so with a dry kit. With a wet kit it is an injection of fuel and nitrous, creating an even combination. Also, this kit can be hooked up to a full throttle switch so that only when it is armed and the throttle is open fully, nitrous will inject. This is much safer than pushing a button controlling the amount of nitrous in your motor hoping that the computer will correctly compensate for the extra oxygen. I've always felt that wet kits are the best way to go and it causes less problems. You really can't overspray causing damage to the motor. It will only inject at a certain point, making sure that the fuel/nitrous mixture is distributed evenly.
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Old 02-16-2004, 04:39 PM
custom880 custom880 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Helvedere6617
Nitrous itself isn't really flamable. When Nitrous is mixed with the other elements in a engine, it breaks down to form oxygen. And we all know oxygen promotes burning. Basically, nitrous just helps your motor run harder and faster by creating more oxygen inside your motor.
Very interesting. But let me ask you this. If the Nitros promotes more oxygen for more burning why not inject pure oxygen? What am I missing? Is it the combination of the Nitros after its broken down? Typical air is made up of mostly nitrogen correct? If that is so has anyone ever looked into what would happen if Hydrogen were used this way? Hydrogen is being used in fuel cells, and that Hydrogen is a very flamable element. I would assume that Hydrogen in a compressed form is very cold as well. Hydrogen when mixed with Oxygen is extremely flamable right? Is it because the Hydrogen and fuel (gasoline) burn at such a different rate that it is not able to be used? I am sure that if it were feasable it would have been used by now. Like I said I never looked at this before (NOS) just seen it a few times but never asked any questions about it. I am trying to understand and remember some of my basic high school science. LOL
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Old 02-16-2004, 06:25 PM
riquiscott riquiscott is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Helvedere6617
Good point. A very lean motor would not be good. One thing I think you should have mentioned about the two types of kits is that the dry kits are very unstable and are dangerous. There is risk with nitrous anyways but more so with a dry kit. With a wet kit it is an injection of fuel and nitrous, creating an even combination. Also, this kit can be hooked up to a full throttle switch so that only when it is armed and the throttle is open fully, nitrous will inject. This is much safer than pushing a button controlling the amount of nitrous in your motor hoping that the computer will correctly compensate for the extra oxygen. I've always felt that wet kits are the best way to go and it causes less problems. You really can't overspray causing damage to the motor. It will only inject at a certain point, making sure that the fuel/nitrous mixture is distributed evenly.
The type of kit (wet or dry) and method of activation have nothing to do with one another. You can have a dry kit activated by a full throttle switch, a wet kit that's manually activated by a pushbutton, or vice-versa. It's true that there is more risk with a dry kit, since you have to rely on the computer to add the additional fuel, they're perfectly safe in smaller dosages. If you had a new Neon, and wanted an extra 50 or 75 h.p. from nitrous, a dry kit may best suit your needs. Don't forget that wet kits can introduce the danger of puddling a fuel/nitrous mixture in the intake plumbing if the nozzle is too far away from the intake manifold. This is more of a problem in modern cars, where the ait filter is located away from the top of the engine and connected to it via a length of pipe. This pipe usually has the mass-airflow senson, and it's not a bad place for a wet-or dry- type nitrous oxide injector, but with a wet-type system, extra care must be taken that the air/fuel mixture stays atomized all the way to the intake manifold.
Scott Gardner
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Old 02-16-2004, 06:40 PM
riquiscott riquiscott is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by custom880
Very interesting. But let me ask you this. If the Nitros promotes more oxygen for more burning why not inject pure oxygen? What am I missing? Is it the combination of the Nitros after its broken down? Typical air is made up of mostly nitrogen correct? If that is so has anyone ever looked into what would happen if Hydrogen were used this way? Hydrogen is being used in fuel cells, and that Hydrogen is a very flamable element. I would assume that Hydrogen in a compressed form is very cold as well. Hydrogen when mixed with Oxygen is extremely flamable right? Is it because the Hydrogen and fuel (gasoline) burn at such a different rate that it is not able to be used? I am sure that if it were feasable it would have been used by now. Like I said I never looked at this before (NOS) just seen it a few times but never asked any questions about it. I am trying to understand and remember some of my basic high school science. LOL
Oxygen is much too flammable for our needs, and storage becomes a major safety issue. Also, the nitrogen in nitrous oxide acts as a buffer in the combustion process, offsetting the explosive tendencies of the oxygen. An injection of pure oxygen and fuel would likely burn too hot and fast to be usable. Likewise for a hydrogen/oxygen mixture. There's really no point, anyway. Regardless of how much added power you want, nitrous oxide can support it, with big enough jets. Your engine would sustain damage long before you ran out of power capability using nitrous oxide.
Scott Gardner
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Old 02-17-2004, 01:20 AM
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pishta pishta is offline
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Oil spontaneoulsy combusts in the presence of pure oxygen....Imagine the pinging you would get on lots of O and not alot of Fuel. Hydrogen needs O to burn also so the fuel + H would need alot of O and that cant be supported on the intake charge.
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Old 02-20-2004, 01:02 AM
MJD MJD is offline
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Injecting pure oxygen= cutting torch.
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