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  #1  
Old 03-28-2004, 05:11 PM
jcgoodwrench jcgoodwrench is offline
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Default 440 in a duster or dart

You are all probably sick of hearing my dilema. Ive scraped putting the 1975 440 from the motorhome in my 86 ram and am now looking into putting it in a 75 dart or duster. I can get either car and the duster is in better shape. My question is will the 440 from the motorhome fit in these cars. I know about the sump switch and the tranny but will the motor mounts line up or do I get new ones. All help is awaited!! Thanx for all of your time.
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Old 03-28-2004, 07:27 PM
jelsr jelsr is offline
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As long as the cars have a V8 K frame it should be a fairly straightforward swap. Torsion bars could be an issue particularly if it is a 440-3. The center dump ex. manifolds will have to be changed but no big problems. As you mentioned, you will need a center sump pan (B bodys will fit) and a BB 727.
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Old 03-28-2004, 07:36 PM
jcgoodwrench jcgoodwrench is offline
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forgive me for being stupid to mopar but when you say k frame what do you mean? Also a rear sump wont work on a duster, I need a center sump! What body style are the duster and dart? Im new to mopar!!! Was a chevy man till recent. Thanx for your help.
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Old 03-28-2004, 08:17 PM
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The only stupid question is the one...You know the old cle'che.
The K-frame is the "cradle" which holds the engine in the car & has some of the mounting points for the suspension The Duster / Dart are "A" body cars. Road Runners, Chargers and similer size cars are "B" body cars. To put a 440 into an A body car you will need mounts from A place Called Schumaker . or use "elephant ears" (not recomended for street driven cars)
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Old 03-28-2004, 08:22 PM
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Schumaker's web site is www.engine-swaps.com
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Old 03-28-2004, 08:25 PM
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A freind of mine has a 440 in a 68 Dart (Its quite impressive)

Darts and Dusters are "A" body Mopars.

As far as the "K" frame, If you look under the motor, where the motor mounts are attatched to. That frame is the "K" frame. The motor, steering box, and all the front end suspesion/steering components are attatched to this. And it looks kinda like a K, so you want a V8 "K" frame instead of a "Slant six" (six cylinder motor) K Frame
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  #7  
Old 03-28-2004, 09:55 PM
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I believe Schumacher has motor mounts for both 6 cylinder and 8 cylinder K frame cars. I believe that it has even been said that the 6 cylinder swap is easier as well. I also thought that center dump manifolds were very hard to find, I suppose possibly becuase they are a motor home item. The sump location is also not an issue either, as long as it is center of rear. I also think that te K frame is directly in front of the oil pan on both 6 and 8 cylinder cars, the only difference is the location of the motor mount brackets.

Hopefully someone with a /6 car and a 440 will lend some input... mine was a 318 car....

Dartman
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Old 03-28-2004, 10:20 PM
jcgoodwrench jcgoodwrench is offline
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Thanx guys that cleared up alot and I cant wait to start working on the motor. Any good cam or other good power getting suggestions for the 440??Im not looking to get nuts but get some power. A friend of mine is replacing his 750 demon carb and is going to sell me it cheap and I know where the carb was and even help put the motor together so I know its good!!Thats where im starting the rebuild. Thanx again
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Old 03-28-2004, 10:27 PM
moparots moparots is offline
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Default WOW

I did not know a 440 could be swapped into a /6 k member car (even with schumachers mounts) Didnt see it in theyre Ad

Do ya know that for sure?

Ive got theyre mounts on my /6 k member holding a 360ci and the swap was flawless.

With that info I may dump the 360, and go out junkyarding for a 440
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Old 03-28-2004, 10:35 PM
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I just left the site and the kit was 150.00 for a /6 -440 or a small block to a 440 and the kit as well as the directions looked easy to read and do. You guys just really exited me thanx!! Just wanted to add what size stall converter would you guys use for weekend driving with the ocasional launch off a makeshift line??
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Old 03-28-2004, 11:21 PM
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I have one question.
Is the engine a 440-3 engine, or an industrial style 440?

Are the spark plugs straight out of the heads, or are they on an angle? 5/8" or 13/16" socket to take the plugs out?
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Old 03-28-2004, 11:26 PM
jcgoodwrench jcgoodwrench is offline
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Marc, I have no idea I just was told by my uncle that he had two motorhomes with 440s and 727s in them and I could have both of them. I know the one home had 49,000 on it and the other had 60,000 on it. both run great and they are free. Does that make a diff for my install or are you just curious?? Thanx for looking.
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  #13  
Old 03-29-2004, 12:41 AM
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JC, I have one of these cars and can help you out with yours. If you will street drive it a lot, use 318 t bars fron a v8 Duster. For drag only use the slant 6 bars or the race bars from mopar performance. Mine uses the stock /6 bars.

You'll also need a set of subframe connectors or the torque will twist hte body up quite bad. It's a piece of 2 x 3 box tubbing that welds in between the flat part of hte front sub frame and fits over the rear sub frame tying them together to prevent this warping from occuring. This is a must, no matter what anyone tells you.

I also use fenderwell exit headers too. As for motor mounts I use a mounter plate. You can get one for a $100.oo even. Also some good agressive shocks like Pro, Carrera, or Bilstien will be in order too.

Mine uses a coil over rear ladder bar set up. Easy to install than a 4 link and hooks up almost as good. Some mopar performance super stock springs and at least an adjustable pinion snubber to go on top of you rear axle will be a good start for you.
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  #14  
Old 03-29-2004, 01:16 AM
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Thumbs up Good advice

Sounds like your ready to go fast now,I dont think I would worry about a cam or stall converter just yet,you dump it in and it will be impressive just because its not pushing a big heavy box around anymore.Im guessing about 460 ft lbs and 350 horse.Put the demon on and some fenderwell headers and frame ties before the posi gets installed for sure,and then we want to see some timeslips.
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  #15  
Old 03-29-2004, 09:21 AM
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Just a couple of notes here. You cannot use a rear sump pan due to the centerlink, the sump sits between the K frame and the centerlink. If it is a 440-3, car manifolds will not fit. the bolt pattern is different. As was mentioned, the -3 motors (truck) have the spark plugs angled vs straight for the car. Another giveaway for the -3's is the water pump housing, it sits very high and bolts to the head and the block. If they are still in the Motor Home chassis there is a plate with the engine Model and CID, along with other info, stamped into it under the hood.
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Old 03-29-2004, 07:35 PM
jcgoodwrench jcgoodwrench is offline
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dwc43 do you have any pics of the frame stiffener you talked about (2x3 tubing) or something that would help me with where to place it? I have an arc and mig welder and access to steel to do it with. How about the support that comes with the kit from schumaker is that what you are talking about? One more thing will the headers that schumaker sells for that swap fit the duster well or should I get the ones you mentioned? Thanx again to all you are great!!!!
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  #17  
Old 03-29-2004, 09:15 PM
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http://www.bigblockdart.com/connectors/connectors.htm

Here's a page with some sub frame connectors. Don't have any info on Shumakers headers, but the fender wells are the way to go. I have a set from Hooker on mine. Work great. Got any more questions just let me know and I'll try to help you out.
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Old 03-29-2004, 09:46 PM
jcgoodwrench jcgoodwrench is offline
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That page was cool but should ther be any supports on the k frame or are the ones in the pics enough? It looks to me they do more for front to back movement than anything else. One other quest will a center sump for a 440 from jegs be good enough to fit in the k frame, and what type pick up should I use?? Thanx again!!
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Old 03-29-2004, 10:13 PM
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Amazing! I did that same conversion about 9 years ago on my Dart Sport!

After a lot of measuring I realized that the inside of 2X3 steel would fit directly over the rear frame rails. I basically cut the one end into a big "U" and then butt welded the front to the cross member (the article shows a "T" shaped bracket that may be superior). I am happy to see that someone has documented the process, since it is much stronger than the aftermarket ones and superior to 2X2 steel or tube as well. It's cheaper too!! It does add a couple extra pounds, but let's face it: these cars are made from recycled soup cans and weigh only slightly less than my brother. This update is easy (only have to move the brake lines), cheap (I think I had $20 and about three hours time total), and strong (you can jack up the car anywhere on the connector).

The subframe connectors make the A bodies extermely stif for racing or for heavier powerplants. However, running fenderwell headers may require some additional bracing on the front stub down from the firewall. This is becuase much of the front end strength is derived from the inner fenderwells.

I got to give up a "DUH" to myself on the rear sump pan from above, too. I guess I forgot about the steering linkage.... I wish I could say that it is because I converted to a Pinto R&P, but I just had a brain fart.

Dartman

PS - DWC have you ever been to Monster Mopar Weekend in St. Louis? I see that your a little ways south and it wouldn't be too long of trip for the greatest Mopar show on earth (this side of the Nat's).
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Old 03-30-2004, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jcgoodwrench
That page was cool but should ther be any supports on the k frame or are the ones in the pics enough? It looks to me they do more for front to back movement than anything else. One other quest will a center sump for a 440 from jegs be good enough to fit in the k frame, and what type pick up should I use?? Thanx again!!
Mine uses the stock K frame, but I also use a motor plate instead of shumaker mounts. The 440 pan from Jegs will work nicely. There are some pricey rear sumps too that has the provisions for the steering link to go through it. Mine does not move front to back. It does make a twisting motion in the frame and that's why you need the subframe connectors. Also a motor plate helps to prevent this twist too since it ties the front frame rails together too.
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Old 03-30-2004, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Dartman

Dartman

PS - DWC have you ever been to Monster Mopar Weekend in St. Louis? I see that your a little ways south and it wouldn't be too long of trip for the greatest Mopar show on earth (this side of the Nat's).
No. I've never been to it. How far and what time of year does it occur in?
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Old 03-30-2004, 11:37 AM
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How does 5 hours 43 minutes sound from Shelbyville? It is about 360 miles. This is slightly more than I drive coming down from Iowa.

The date is September 10-12 for 2004.

I have not missed a Monster Mopar in 10 years. Great swap meet, car show, and Drag race all in the same place!
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  #23  
Old 03-30-2004, 05:33 PM
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That's not too bad of a drive. Looks like it will be a wek or two before our car show too. Is there a web site with some more info on it? I might consider it as the time draws near.
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Old 03-30-2004, 09:43 PM
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Just the gateway site:

www.gatewayinternationalraceway.com

www.monstermopar.com has finally been updated, but not a whole lot of info.
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Old 03-31-2004, 09:50 AM
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Thanks, I'll chreck it out.
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  #26  
Old 04-01-2004, 11:39 AM
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I have a 440/Duster-- In my opinion the 440/A-body swap is the best combo ever.WELL worth the time and money.Theres just something about the wheelbase, width,length,etc that make Dusters/Darts great bracket cars.And good street cars I guess.Mine was converted when i bought it.It was done "Redneck"style.They lowered the motor down,marked the locations,and welded in some homemade mounts.I also run Hooker fenderwheels.instead of removing the entire fenderwell,small sections are cut out just big enough for the tubes to pass through.I have the M/P subframe connectors and pinion snubber.stock center sump pan.
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Old 04-01-2004, 09:25 PM
jcgoodwrench jcgoodwrench is offline
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marc the plugs come straight out of the heads and they are 5/8" is that a normal 440 or a truck casting??
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Old 04-01-2004, 10:25 PM
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Exclamation small plugs

the only ones I have ever seen with small plugs were in motor homes.Could be what is refered to as 440 type 3.Need those other nombers to tell us more.
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  #29  
Old 04-02-2004, 05:03 PM
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you could put the 440 in a gen I or II Dakota. Schumacher makes the kits for that swap too.
http://www.engine-swaps.com/frames/f...ck_Dakota.html
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Old 04-03-2004, 03:22 PM
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JC, check the bolt pattern that fastens the ex manifolds to the head. If they are all in line with a 2 bolt ex pipe flange it's a conventional engine. If a staggered pattern (end cylinder bolts diagonal) and 4 bolts holding the ex pipe to it it's a truck/industrial engine (440-3)
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