Help settle the 5 point harness arguement...

[The Dartman]

Guys:

You can help me settle an arguement that my brother and I have.

Here's the situation: My brother has a 72 Oldsmobile that ran a best of 11.61@115 at our local track. This is a street car that does not need a roll bar until 11.50 or greater under IHRA rules, but still utilizes the 30 year stock lap belts only. My brother is done going faster and doesn't want to put a roll cage in, but he would like to get the belts up to snuff.

I suggested running a Y Type harness to a simple bracket on the floor for the shoulder and sub straps, and the lap belts to the stock locations. I ran my Dart Sport this way for two seasons.

The guys on "Reals Olds Power" are telling my brother that it is more dangerous to have a 5 point harness without a roll cage than to have a 30 year old lap belt doing 115 MPH. Granted, I can see how you may be more likely to sustain a neck injury in the event of a roll over, but with the lap belt you may be out the window or have already broken your neck, back, or your teeth and face on the steering wheel before you even have the opportunity. The important thing is to have a solid belt and mount keeping you in the car and your upper torso (and hence your head a neck) as stable as possible in the event of a crash.

What do you guys think? I gonna convert this post over to a poll, so here goes...

Dartman

[23T]

The better you are one with the car the more control you have, where do you think the old saying comes from " Boys yank them belts one more time" just before the green.
Just my 0.02

[riquiscott]

I'm with you in that I think a harness is preferable to the stock lap belts, but I'm concerned about mounting them to the floor. In a wreck, the shoulder harnesses will keep him from being thrown forward, but if the shoulder belts are mounted to the floor, presumably right behind the seat, the force will try to pull his shoulders down into his pelvis, compressing his spine. This is why shoulder harnesses are usually mounted to a cage bar right behind the seat, at about the same height as the shoulders. Since he's not using a cage, a better location than the floor for mounting the shoulder belts would be the seatbelt mounting bolts in the rear seat. That way, the belt forces in an accident would be pulling his upper body backward rather than downward.

Scott Gardner

[gsmopar]

Anchoring the shoulder belts to the floor causes severe back and neck injury. That's why you NEVER see cars come that way stock. You brother should bite the bullet and do a 6pt bar or slow the car down.

my $.02

Later,

Greg

[dodger1]

Being a 72 olds I would think it had a factory mount for the separate shoulder belt and if so I might be tempted to bolt in a 3-point stock-type harness. (My old 72 Satellite had this style harness) Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure my Dad's 68 Cutlass had this also.

[DANS66DART]

I've also heard that if you bolt it to the floor incorrectly, in the event of a sudden stop, the bolts could come back through the floorpan.

Dan

[dewme5]

you can use the y harness and bolt to the rear seat belt mounts. It creates an angle that is much less likely to cause severe injury. bad news... can't use the rear seat.

do it right. install the cage.

[moraycen]

Your harness CAN NOT be mounted any more than 4in below shoulders (2004 Rulebook)last year tech gave me hassle on having it mounted to a lower bar and ran over the bar behind the seat!Tell him to put in a 4 point with cross bar he will be better off!(no such thing as too safe!)
Ray

[horatio102]

iirc your belts will stretch (in the event of an accident) about 6" for every foot of belt length. So if you've got the belts anchored to a spot 3' from your shoulders they'll stretch a foot and a half. How far away from the seat is the dash?

Also what has been said before is correct - you DON'T want them mounted more than 15 degrees below horizontal from your shoulders.

Check the numbers but iirc those are correct from my sitting through tech on the rally car.

You can get a removable harness bar that bolts to the factory shoulder belt locations if you've got them. That way you can just bolt it in for racing and take it back out when not. Also use ring bolts for the lap belt and you can keep your stock stuff and clip in a harness belt for the race.