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  #1  
Old 04-12-2004, 11:15 PM
PLUM_72 PLUM_72 is offline
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Default Ricardo Montlebon talking up the Leather

We need some dude talking up the corinthiean leather!!!! LOL!

Im also seeing a reality TV show where everyone gets carted around in a Pacifica without doors. Kind of a take off of the old Volare wagons used on the show Fantasy Island.

Seriously though...
Enough with the Intrepid dash board. It looks too damn silly, I could unfold a road map, put it on the dashboard and read it while I drive. There is just WAAAAAY too much rake angle to the front windshield and it makes the dash board too deep.

How about stealing the secret to the Mercedes quality and apply it across the board. Im tired of spending a boat load of money to get a chrysler fixed after 60,000 miles. Whereas brand "GM" can go 100K or more before Im dumping money to get a major part fixed. Dont get me wrong I love my Chryslers...they just need a quality kick in the rear...
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Old 04-13-2004, 02:26 AM
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Thumbs down Re: Ricardo Montlebon talking up the Leather

Quote:
Originally posted by PLUM_72
Im tired of spending a boat load of money to get a chrysler fixed after 60,000 miles. Whereas brand "GM" can go 100K or more before Im dumping money to get a major part fixed. Dont get me wrong I love my Chryslers...they just need a quality kick in the rear...
Even better why dont you put down the pipe and stop smokin whatever it is you're smoking. I'm closing in on 100K miles on my 2000 Grand Caravan with no major malfunctions whatsoever and I've fixed way too much GM GARBAGE to even take your comment about 100K on them with no repairs very seriously, unless you're talkin about the typical SBChivvy that runs fine 100K, then tosses the rod thru the pan shortly after.
Sorry, I'm just tired of the endless smear with insults thrown with no facts to back them up. My Mopars run, I dunno what you're doing wrong.
Then again, maybe you're just lost and posting on the wrong message board.
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  #3  
Old 04-13-2004, 03:21 AM
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TrashedCharger TrashedCharger is offline
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Default Milage milage...

Well, I know of a transport company out of Golden, Colorado called Golden West Transport. They use the Ram Van as their choice of vehicle for fleet.

These vans are setup like this:
Fuel Injected 5.9 L Magnum V8
A-518 Overdrive Automatic Transmisson
Dana 60 rear axle

all on the 3/4 ton chassis van.

These vans are running all of the time every single day, weather they are stopped or driving. They consistantly have at least 1000 pounds of passanger and cargo.

at 300,000 miles, the engines and transmissions are pulled and dissasembled for inspection and overhaul.

The only thing that they replace inside these engines are the rings and a stone honing job inside each cylinder.

The bores show zero ridge wear and zero taper, the rod and main bearings have zero wear as do the camshafts and their bearings, the transmissions rarely even need clutches and most of them only need the overdrive rebuilt.

The rearends are given a new set of seals and nothing more.

My point is this:

If a vehicle is driven (any mass produced vehicle made for public transportation) and does not routinely get its fluids checked and changed exactly when needed, chassis lubricated, filters and sensors checked changed exactly when needed, and make sure its clean, you will have problems.

Hell, even if you neglect washing your engine and under carrage every time you wash your car, that alone can lead to the deterioration of the vehicles lifespan.

The reliability of a vehicle is all about how it is driven and how it is maintained.

What I am sick of hearing isn't so much brand bashing, that is just arrogant, but what really makes me sick is when people compare cars with low milage and low age against vehicles with 20+ years of age and high milage on them.

What are you trying to prove? Yes, a new car is more reliable than a vehicle that is 20+ years old. EVEN IF BOTH VEHICLES HAVE THE EXACT SAME MILAGE AND ARE THE EXACT SAME DESIGN.

What a lot of people don't realize is that OLD AGE will deteriorate a car, even a well kept one in a garage.

Bushings and seals shrink and break apart, fluids and lubricants become unuseful, plastics, silicon and rubber all lose their petroleum and flexing properties, metal begins to corrode, wires become brittle, glass will distort, etc.

for example... My mothers 2001 PT Cruiser runs and drives excellent and has about 31,000 miles on it, it has no problems holding an alignment.

My friend down the street has a 1965 Plymouth Valiant V200. It runs and drives like new, it should, it only has 43,000 original miles on it and it shows. However, the front end sits terrible, it scrubs tires, it smokes a little and the upholstery is cracking.

There is only a difference of 12,000 miles between the two vehicles, so why the lack in suspension geometry, upholstery quality and ring seal on the Valiant? Well, I'd say 39 years should answer that question.

Never compare a vehicles reliability with another, no two vehicles are exactly the same no matter what.


And yes... my friend has an Energy Suspension polygraphite kit with new joints that is going in the front of his '65 Valiant.
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Old 04-13-2004, 11:28 PM
PLUM_72 PLUM_72 is offline
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Default Re: Re: Ricardo Montlebon talking up the Leather

Quote:
Originally posted by Stoga
Even better why dont you put down the pipe and stop smokin whatever it is you're smoking. I'm closing in on 100K miles on my 2000 Grand Caravan with no major malfunctions ... My Mopars run, I dunno what you're doing wrong.
Consider yourself lucky! I know of at least 5 chrysler minivans, late 90s', that all needed major tranny work after 60,000 miles. My Grand Chrerokee has been in the shop more times than I can count. When it comes to new Chryslers, I will not touch another one without buying an extended warranty.

My mopars run too...but the new one has to stop at the dealer to be fixed more often than i would like...thats all Im saying....
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Old 04-14-2004, 09:56 AM
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Default Re: Ricardo Montlebon talking up the Leather

Quote:
Originally posted by PLUM_72

How about stealing the secret to the Mercedes quality and apply it across the board. Im tired of spending a boat load of money to get a chrysler fixed after 60,000 miles. Whereas brand "GM" can go 100K or more before Im dumping money to get a major part fixed. Dont get me wrong I love my Chryslers...they just need a quality kick in the rear...
For the past couple of years, Chrysler cars score higher in quality ratings than Mercedes, so I don't think you want to learn their secrets. Name and reputation counts, but it doesn't trump reality. At nearly double the price, Mercedes should have substantially higher quality than Chrysler.
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Old 04-14-2004, 10:42 AM
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Default Re: Re: Re: Ricardo Montlebon talking up the Leather

Quote:
Originally posted by PLUM_72
I know of at least 5 chrysler minivans, late 90s', that all needed major tranny work after 60,000 miles.
THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!
Hey, before you flap your wings in panic anymore, can you answer a few questions? Were those transmissions you refer to serviced at least ever 50,000 miles? I do my own personal equipment every 30K, but thats just me. If the bands werent adjusted and the transmission given a basic looking over, did they get at least a basic simple fiilter and fluid change? If not, is it any surprise they went out at 60,000 miles? The mileage right there should have been a clue.
These days if you dont do this, most dealerships regardless of manufacturer will NOT warrantee your transaxle or transmission, its considered neglect.
My pickup has been in an out of my garage more times than I can count too, doesnt mean much though if you cant say what it was in there for, does it?
In my case I was just hauling stuff, but in yours, what was being done? Anything?
I'm going to take a guess here and say that if you have a problem, its with your dealership, not Chrysler. Every manufacturer has good ones and bad ones, if you arent do the maintenence yourself, and cant verify if the dealership is doing it, at least check your facts and see just what is being done before you come in here making harsh accusations. Like I said before, I maintain my Mopars and they have served me fine. I dont know what you're doing wrong, but I can guess.

I will say that you're not alone amongst late model owners with overdrive transmissions problems. This is a common problem, my sister's Lincoln had it, my friend's Nissan, his sister's Toyota...etc etc. Everyone of them never had the trannny looked at until problems started, by then, it was too late. Bare minimum change fluid/filter ever 30K miles, some manuals state 50K miles, and odds are you'll never have a problem except in rare cases where a solenoid or switch may go out on a computer controlled tranny.

Every Mopar I've dealt with in the past 20 years that had major problems before 100,000 miles, that problem has ALWAYS been traced back to either neglect, abuse and occasionally, incompetant mechanics who put in the wrong fluid or other similar goofy mistakes.
If you're not neglecting or abusing your vehicle, then change dealership and/or mechanics.
It's just I've heard so many wild accusations without any background information on message boards, that I've gotten a lil tired of it . Also, at this message board, if somone doesnt call you on it, someone else will. At least dont assume cause no one posts back we're accepting it all, hook line and sinker.
This isnt consumer reports...we dont test washing machines, can openers, or even fishing lures, we're all gearheads here.
And just in case you had been in and out of a certain dealership a bunch of times, do yourself a favor and change dealerships or at least call your zone representative at Chrysler.
But honestly and in all fairness, if its a lack of maintenence thing, dont blame Chrysler.
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  #7  
Old 04-14-2004, 12:36 PM
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MoparMarcIdaho MoparMarcIdaho is offline
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When I wore green clothes and wrenched for uncle sam everything got pulled down once a year and looked at.Its called Preventitive Maintenance,annual service.Still a good idea.
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  #8  
Old 04-14-2004, 02:15 PM
PLUM_72 PLUM_72 is offline
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DOWN BOY!
I myself, like most people that post on this board, like cars and most can do basic maintenance on their vehicles. Of course there are acceptions. What I stated are FACTS!. Granted there are tons of minivan that are sold. But a large portion of the owners that I know have had problems when the miles approch 60K. I'm not going to say that all were meticulously maintained, maybe they were, maybe not. It is ABSOLUTELY ridiculous to state that if they had their trans fluid changed at 50000 miles like the owners manual said that there would be no trans issues 15000 miles later. These minivan are owned by familys that take reasonable care of their things and do not tow or abuse the vehicle.
Like I said before, I like Chrysler stuff. Most of their stuff has eye catching design. That is why I have purchased those vehicles. I am only stating my experiences with new Chrysler product!
It is also ridiculous to state or imply that Chrysler vehicles have no problems at all if properly maintained. That simply isn't true. If it were, the service departments would be empty. Chrysler could lower the cost of their vehicles because they have no warranty claims, people would be lined up for miles to by their stuff, and every automotive magazine would give them TOP ratings. So on and so on. And as someone mentioned Consumer Reports, they would tell you to only buy Chrysler instead of the imported stuff like they do today. There is definitely room for quality improvement within Chrysler despite what your opinion is!
My opinion on this board is as valuable as yours is, especially to the next guy reading. Don't bring people into a false sense of security by telling them if they maintain a vehicle NOTHING will break. That isn't true, Sh_t happens and stuff breaks. That's why warrantys & extended warranty exist. On the same token I don't want to imply that all Chrysler stuff is garbage either. Take the good with the bad.
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  #9  
Old 04-14-2004, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by PLUM_72
DOWN BOY!
I myself, like most people that post on this board, like cars and most can do basic maintenance on their vehicles. Of course there are acceptions. What I stated are FACTS!.
You settle YOURSELF down, Boy.
I never said this, so why do you say, "if they had their trans fluid changed at 50000 miles like the owners manual said that there would be no trans issues 15000 miles later. "
Why dont you scroll back and check again, so I dont have to copy and paste it back what I did say back to you.

I never said they have "no problems at all" if properly maintained, but in my experience, that is vehicles which I have OWNED and MAINTAINED with my own hands or have SEEN it done with my own eyes, they have had no failures due to either design or neglect. If you havent seen the maintenence done on your family's vehicles, do you really want to swear how well it was done or not?
I find these 2 statements by you to be patently false: "How about stealing the secret to the Mercedes quality and apply it across the board. Im tired of spending a boat load of money to get a chrysler fixed after 60,000 miles. Whereas brand "GM" can go 100K or more before Im dumping money to get a major part fixed."
GaryS covered the first statement, and I've repaired too much GM trash to ever take the 2nd statement seriously.
PS: I have a 1990 Dodge van with 150,000 miles on it with the original 360 engine and drivetrain still functioning perfectly. I'm gonna pull the driveline out for a rod project one day, not the factory's fault its been beat to where it looks like a potato sack!
Still runs good, just the rest of it isnt fit to drive.
I still drive my Breeze every day with just under 150K on it too, the minivan is closing in on 100K. There is no "false sense oif security" here, I get in them, turn the key and they run.
Extended warrantees are just a pleasant way of saying bend over and take it, be sure to smile. 9 times out of 10, if something goes bad, it'll be song and dance time.
All you're doing is repeating the same all purpose smears against Chrysler corp that a good portion of the Automotive media tries to push off as the truth, so they can dip deeply into your wallet and make sure their advertisers and backers get what they want.
If all your opinion is, is just hearsay or repeated opinions of magazines, spare me.
Before you tell me something is utterly ridiculous such as maintaining your vehicle, why dont you try it or at least be sure your family did the same, before reporting their problems as gospel truth. I know my sister torched the tranny on her Lincoln, until I explained it to her, tranny service was something she never thought of. As for the next guy reading, maybe he'd like to know what specifically happened, what did the "boatload" of money get spent on? If it was for replacing a transmission with a bunch of sludge in the filter, who's fault is that? If it was for something else, say so. I'd do the same, except I dont have a problem to report here. Then again, I'm not the one complaining...
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Old 04-14-2004, 03:38 PM
PLUM_72 PLUM_72 is offline
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Stoga,
What ever was said was said...answer this....So in your opinion Chrysler doesn't need to improve their quality?
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  #11  
Old 04-14-2004, 03:47 PM
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MoparMarcIdaho MoparMarcIdaho is offline
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Exclamation Synthetics

really seem to help get the miles out of vehicles too.Is there something out there for automatics?Sure helps in motors and differentials.If I build a motor for someone and I catch them with dirty oil in it,no warranty no way.And no pennz or quaker either.Although I hear they recently (fixed) pennz.Im sure quality control could use a reality check and extended warranty plans are best used for toilet paper. But Im sorry to say its been that way for a while.Gimme your money and git out of my face is SOP anymore.Free enterprise is just that.If this grocery store charges too much for a loaf of bread go buy it someplace else.They might lower their prices and be nice to get your return buisness.We can always hope.
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Old 04-14-2004, 05:26 PM
PLUM_72 PLUM_72 is offline
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I will agree with all of you in that Preventive Maintenance will prolong the life of any vehicle. I dont think anyone is questioning that. But things just break sometimes for no apparent reason. Could be, manufacturing defect, material defect, part supplier error, etc...
Nobody is perfect...not even Chrysler...
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Old 04-14-2004, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by PLUM_72
Stoga,
What ever was said was said...answer this....So in your opinion Chrysler doesn't need to improve their quality?
The question is slanted, who doesnt need to improve their quality, are you implying every other manufacturer doesnt?
Good luck finding this perfect world you seem to think exists.
If you dislike current Mopar products, at least tell us SPECIFICALLY what the problem is. General insults with meager description dont cut it. I dont care if your boss's 2nd cousins aunt fanny's veternarian had problems. If you dont know the specifics of the problem, maybe they should be posting, not you.
As I said before, My Mopars run.
I have no idea what you're doing wrong and if you cant even give me the simplest reason why other than vague generalities, snarky questions or opinions not your own,
quit wasting your time and our bandwidth.
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Old 04-14-2004, 06:04 PM
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1982 Cordoba

My father in law had an '82 Cordoba that had a 318 auto that he had the oil changed every 2K, and it lasted 330K before it was wrecked. He never had a valve cover off, always had the trans adjusted every 10K, and all the adjustments made. His only replaced the pass side ball joint, two starters, and an alternator. By the time the car was wrecked, the car would not start without having the air conditioner on (?). This is more unmolested miles than I have ever gotten out of a Mopar, and three times more than I have ever gotten out of ANY brand X.
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Old 04-14-2004, 06:15 PM
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Default Re: 1982 Cordoba

Quote:
Originally posted by pcrmike
My father in law had an '82 Cordoba that had a 318 auto that he had the oil changed every 2K, and it lasted 330K before it was wrecked.
Wow, thats unreal! I like that term,"unmolested miles",lol!
Best I've done is 240K on a 86 Reliant and my dad's old 83 Van at 210K. The odometer was busted on that Reliant though, I only figured out the miles after finding a bunch of old sales receipts under the back after a stereo installation and general cleanup. It was pecking pretty hard with a semi-flat cam lobe, yet the friend I gave it to drove it clear to Georgia from West Virginia and ran it for quite awhile after that.
But I ran the snot out out of Dad's old van so it could have lasted longer. It had towed and had been bracket raced almost every weekend for a few years, then eventually lost oil pressure so I had to park it. I figure it needed bearings, but just never could get the time or money to fix it then. sigh......
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Old 04-14-2004, 07:15 PM
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MoparMarcIdaho MoparMarcIdaho is offline
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Arrow My moms

88 Caravan just got retired last year,blew a head gasket after 310 thou,V6 she got 500 in the auto trader for it,I could have had it if I would have went to Kansas to fix and drive home,shoulda done it.
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Old 04-15-2004, 12:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Stoga
The question is slanted, who doesnt need to improve their quality, are you implying every other manufacturer doesnt?
Good luck finding this perfect world you seem to think exists.
If you dislike current Mopar products, at least tell us SPECIFICALLY what the problem is. General insults with meager description dont cut it. I dont care if your boss's 2nd cousins aunt fanny's veternarian had problems. If you dont know the specifics of the problem, maybe they should be posting, not you.
As I said before, My Mopars run.
I have no idea what you're doing wrong and if you cant even give me the simplest reason why other than vague generalities, snarky questions or opinions not your own,
quit wasting your time and our bandwidth.
It seems you are getting a little bothered by my comments...truth hurts doesnt it...I have a laundry list of things the dealer has had to do on my Grand Cherokee all under warranty, everything from valve body replacement, U-joint replacement, goofy things going on with the climate control...the list goes on and on...The problems are all unrelated and no I dont beat the car, tow with it etc...I like the car, and to quote you "My mopar runs", but it does stop at the dealer a little more than I would like. I dont expect a perfect car but I do expect a little more for the $40,000 I paid for the thing. Sure I think we all can quote stories of my uncles brothers car going 300K without issue...but how is that any different than stating that I know some people that had problems on a minivan after 60K? Its not...the only way its different is that its not what you want to hear. Chrysler has its quality issues just as much as brand G, F, T, etc...My comparison to GM in an earlier post was experience, my other "daily driver" happens to be a GM 4 door sedan...its 3 years old and is coming up on 50K miles. It hasnt been in shop yet...lucky? maybe...but its what I have to compare to. Maybe it will go down tomorrow...who knows. You continue to reference that car problems that are occuring are related to something I'm doing wrong...The dealer doesnt thing so...otherwise I would have a LARGE bill after my "visit". Sorry you dont like what I have to say, you also dont have to read my post or for that matter respond to it. Sorry to waste your time, you can now return to your fantasy land where Chrysler products never have problems if you perform PM.
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Old 04-15-2004, 07:22 AM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by PLUM_72
[B]DOWN BOY!
I myself, like most people that post on this board, like cars and most can do basic maintenance on their vehicles. Of course there are acceptions. What I stated are FACTS!. Granted there are tons of minivan that are sold. But a large portion of the owners that I know have had problems when the miles approch 60K.

I think what has Stoga worked up are the generalizations like this one. When you state that "a large portion of the owners that you know have had problems when the miles approach 60K" sounds like anyone who buys a Chrysler minvan can expect a better than average chance of having trans problems. I would think that the national service records could prove that wrong. I am not saying that they dont have trans problems, but not to the extent that you are implying. I have had more Mopars (probably) than most on this board and I have had my share of lemons. However given a general overview and knowing far more people with Chrysler products than most people I would say their service record is no worse than anyone elses including the vaunted import crowd. All cars and trucks these days are generally better built than before. All car companies strive to make their product better than the next guy, certainly Chrysler can be included in that. I am to a point where a minvan is no longer a need for my family, and I switched to the new Hemi Ram. If I had listened to the negative comments about the new Hemi I would have never bought one. The comments range from bad enigines, to bad transmissions, to poor power and torque and outdated design. To me it's all bulltickey. I have no problems with my truck and I pound it hard. I tow my 73 Charger with it and I have NO PROBLEMS with power or torque. The truck is a black 4 door
4 x 4 1500 and I get more oohhs and aahhs than anybody else including my very good friend who has a black 4 x 4 F150. They are flat out gorgeous trucks and for my money they have the competition beat all to hell. The Hemi is a monster, the truck looks good, the interior is very nice and the price was right. So glad I didnt listen to consumer reports, or Car and driver, or any of the other bashers out there.
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Old 04-15-2004, 12:56 PM
PLUM_72 PLUM_72 is offline
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Okay...many of you stated "give me more facts". I dont want to burst anyones bubble but what I have stated are facts. If you would like to somewhat verify them let me introduce you to a website that you might not be aware of:
http://www.nhtsa.org/
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration keeps a record of all complaints, recalls and tech service bulletins provided by the auto manufacturers. Look up the tech bulletins for your car. If there are tech bulletins, that means the manufacturer recognizes there is a problem or issue and the best method to correct it. It also means that if a tech bulletin exists, there is a good probabilty that the issue may occur on your vehicle. I am not saying the issue will occur to every vehicle, but it is something to look out for. Before you visit the site, be aware that the full tech bulletin is not there, just a title and very brief description. Take a look at the complaint section as well for your vehicle. Its all interesting reading.
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Old 04-16-2004, 01:37 AM
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"truth hurts doesn't it"
Yeah, give us some next time. Nothing you say troubles me, I just hate to see mis-statements, innuendo and half truths presented as fact.
Spare me the link, I've seen it already. Another anti-Mopar troll, pasted that one to me ages ago. It didnt prove his argument either.
Oh well, I'm sure you dont get it and will post some more "generalizations", as custom880 just pointed out.
Simple fact is, you havent proven your assertions, and your bias isnt appreciated here.
Lemme give ya a lil example. I happen to own a couple of Fords and as a rule, I dont post about them here. Neither do I go to Ford boards or any other board telling them how bad their vehicles are or how great my Mopars have been.
Just cause I happened to buy something with that blue oval or any other trademark on it, doesnt give me the right to slag things however I please on their turf.
If I do, I'll have specific info like mileage, parts replaced, cost and repair hassles I had to work around and any facts that pertain to the situation.
Not just some hearsay that I got 2nd hand either from individuals or publications.
If you ever happen to be feeling courteous, I'd appreciate if you showed Moparchat the same respect.
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Old 04-16-2004, 11:00 AM
PLUM_72 PLUM_72 is offline
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RE: "I just hate to see mis-statements, innuendo and half truths presented as fact."..."Simple fact is, you havent proven your assertions, and your bias isnt appreciated..."

Funny you should make the above statements how about unproven generalizations and bias, How about all the generaliztions and biased statements youve made you've made?

"Best I've done is 240K on a 86 Reliant and my dad's old 83 Van at 210K"
"PS: I have a 1990 Dodge van with 150,000 miles on it with the original 360 engine and drivetrain still functioning perfectly."
"I still drive my Breeze every day with just under 150K on it too, the minivan is closing in on 100K."

How can you prove your above statements to the rest of us?....the truth is you can't....at least I have attempted to show some proof that the statements I've made are true. If you choose not to believe factory dealer service bulletins, you've shown great ignorance. By no means am I trying to slam Chrysler as being a bad company...I currently own two Chrysler vehicles. The initial forum topic or heading requested input from on what you would like to see from Chrysler, there was even a mention about quality...perhaps you need to go back and read it. How ever my initial comments were perceived, it is MY OPINION the Chrysler has some work to do with quality. I am comparing the two newest vehicles I own, one is a Chrysler and one is brand "G", its been MY EXPERIENCE that the brand "G" is holding up better to date. YOUR expereriences maybe different. There are TONS of opinions floating around in the thousands of threads on this board, mine is just another one of those opinions...like it or not!
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Old 04-16-2004, 12:21 PM
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Thats funny, you come back and throw in my face that I responded in the same fashion that you did.
In case you missed it, I said I HAVE those last 3 vehicles.
Want me to take pics of any part of them? I'm not talking about someone else's vehicles, I'm talking about MY OWN.
Since when is a NHTSA website a factory service bulletin?
I am fully aware that Mopar publishes bulletins,every factory does. That doesnt mean or prove that every one of their vehicles have that defect or it even affects a certain number of them.
YOU started this thread with a statement about Ricardo Montalban, a cool actor with some Mopar experience. No problem there. Then you complained about the windshield rake on the Intrepid, still no problem, not everyone likes it. Thats why Chrysler is going away from the cab-forward look, their line is due for a restyle anyway. No news there, time marches on.
Then you started slamming. By the way, what was the "boatload of money" spent on exactly, still havent gotten the answer to that one. So you come on a Mopar board, slam Mopars, praise GM's, then are somehow you are surprised you get called on it?
In fact, your statements in the original post have already been responded to. If you dont like the response you get, maybe phrase the statement a lil more carefully next time.
By the way, talking from experience, I'm a retired ASE Master Technician, and I've worked on a ton of vehicles. I dont have records for everyone of them I worked on, but one thing for sure, I fixed more GMs and Imports than anything else. Those were the ones I fixed early failures and bad design on. I've fixed my share of Fords and lesser extent, Mopars for other customers. But unlike cracked Import heads and suspension components and Chevy rods thru the pan and lobes off the cam, most of my Pentatstar and Blue Oval experience came from vehicles that were getting scheduled maintenence and replacement of wear parts. Thats why I asked about transmission maintenence, I know what causes most tranny failures.
I at least try to back up my opinion with fact and experience.
I cant even get from you exactly what went wrong on the cars you refer to. You just throw my words back in my face.
I'll say again, if its someone elses car you're referring to, maybe they should be posting , not you.
Seriously, if you love your Chryslers like you say you do, dont tell us about GM's. You dont seem very enthusiastic about Mopars. I'll direct you to the Moparchat logo for proof that we are enthusiasts here.
Lastly, if you have a problem with your Mopar, give us better specifics. Be sure to post in the correct part of the forum when you do.
Maybe we can help you not spend that boatload of money on whatever it was you spent it on. I still dont know just what it was you were purchasing.
Good luck with that boat!
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  #23  
Old 04-16-2004, 01:26 PM
PLUM_72 PLUM_72 is offline
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"Since when is a NHTSA website a factory service bulletin?"

Since you say you were a service tech, you should know that each manufacturer is required by law to send the NHTSA a copy of all their service bulletins. All that is on that website is a very brief summery of the bulletin. You can get the full bulletin from them if you pay for it, there are other sites more oriented to the service techs that will do the same, www.alldata.com is another one of those sites you can check service bulletins.

So you say you have these vehicles...great, glad to hear it...I have one too that I have issues with. But you are making the same generalizations and accusations as I am. Yours are positive slanted, mine are a little negative. Its very clear you dont want to here negative stuff.
I can register a dozen different screen names and state under all those screen names the I went 200,000 miles with my Minivan when really I did own one but sold it at 30K miles. There are probably others out there that claim to have 30 years experience as a mechanic and spew all kinds of advice on how to build a race hemi car, but in reality that person can't even change his own oil. How could any one verify these statements? No one CAN verify the statements or that they even owned the vehicle. But dis-service is done by stating things that are not true whether they be positive or negatively slanted. My point...good or bad statements made really cannot be verified...take what you read and make your own decisions. In other forums vendors, products, etc, are "slammed" all the time...sure there is much discussion, but if you didnt know what some of the "issues" were, you wouldn't be able to make an informed choice. Im glad you think you can back-up your statements...I have also tried to do the same by allowing the reader to go somewhere to read actual third party documents about potential issues with their vehicle no matter the brand...make their own decisions after that. Soemone also posted earlier that they bought a Hemi Ram truck even after reading some of the negative things about it. Glad to hear they did that...Im jealous...
It's funny you also question my being an enthusiast...good or bad, i would think you'd want to hear about the competition. You wouldn't want them coming up fast in your rear view mirror, would you? My statement about another brand was a comparison to what I know and have personal experience with. The statement made about other vehicles, while not my own, CAN BE VERIFIED by reading the tech bulletins...but then as a former service tech...you sound like you dont lend much credence to those bulletins that were created to make your job easier...makes me wonder...
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  #24  
Old 04-16-2004, 05:09 PM
riquiscott riquiscott is offline
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I think the biggest problem when enthusiasts start talking about reliability is that none of us have first-hand experience with enough cars to make statistically-significant statements about the overall reliability of a particular car or brand.

In statistics, you have things called "population size", "sample size", and "certainty level" that you work with when predicting failure rates (reliability). To use lightbulbs as an example, let's say that we have a batch of 10,000 lightbulbs, and we want to be 95% certain that 98% of the lightbulbs are good. Further, let's assume that time/cost constraints dictate that we're only able to test 100 bulbs. We would consult the charts, and find that for a population size of 10,000, and a sample size of 100, we have to get 99 good bulbs out of a 100 to be 95% certain that 98% of the 10,000 bulbs are good.

Considering how many cars of a particular make and model are made in any given year, a very large sample size is required to make a statistically-significant prediction about the overall reliability of the entire production run . Whether you're a typical car owner, a mechanic, or even a fleet manager, you're simply not exposed to enough examples of a particular car to make any accurate statements about the overall reliablity of a particular make or model. For every person that's owned five Honda Civics and never had a problem with any of them, there's another guy that's owned five Civics that were complete lemons.

Mechanics can also fall prey to making false predictions because they're not taking into account how many of a particular car are on the road. A mechanic might say that Ferraris are more reliable than Hondas, because he's only seen one Ferrari in his shop in the past year, but he's seen dozens of Hondas. Taking into account how many Hondas are on the road compared to Ferraris, you can easily see the logical problem with his claim.

Technical Service Bulletins and recalls aren't good indicators either, because there have been TSBs and recalls issued for problems that have only shown up on factory test vehicles, but never in the general population of vehicles sold. On the flipside, some widespread problems have never have recalls or TSBs issued for them because the manufacturer decides it would be better/cheaper to handle them via warranty claims on a case-by-case basis. The most famous example of this is the "exploding Pinto gas tank" issue. In an now-infamous memo, Ford executives acknowledged there was a problem, but decided it would be cheaper to suck up the financial costs of potential lawsuits than to recall all the Pintos on the road.

Personally, I think that all the major automakers are in the same ballpark when it comes to reliability, but I will be the first to say that THIS IS NOTHING MORE THAN A GUT-FEELING/HUNCH ON MY PART!!!. I don't have first-hand experience with the thousands of cars it would require for me to make a definitive statement on the subject.

Scott Gardner
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  #25  
Old 04-16-2004, 05:36 PM
GaryS GaryS is offline
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While none of us have enough data to make valid conclusions, we all reach conclusions based on personal experience. That creates perceptions and perceptions are as powerful as facts, when it comes to reputations.
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  #26  
Old 04-16-2004, 06:26 PM
riquiscott riquiscott is offline
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Very true, and it's possible to be guilty of poorly-based conclusions even when you KNOW they're poorly-based. Because of a horrendous experience I had with a Sony car CD player back in 1992, I haven't bought another one since. Logical? Not in the least, but the experience left a bad taste in my mouth regarding Sony car gear that's persisted for twelve years.

Scott Gardner
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