TF-727 Spice Up?

[NZ 440R/T]

I had my Torqueflite-727 rebuilt and this is what it got:


# Split and overhaul torque converter + Overhaul kit.
# Filter.
# New front band & rear band.
# Clutch fibre plates, clutch steel plates and clutch end plate.
# New clutch drum and selective snap ring, new clutch dia spring and wave spring.
# Complete new bush kit and thrust kit.
# New over run roller and spring kit.


Now, this is all back to stock with good replacment parts, it will probably shift a little better than when it left the floor but, I want just a little spice up and I'm not sure if I should get a converter and/or a shift kit?


My Challenger has a 440 engine which came with the 727 and will be housing around 375hp - 415hp. It will be an everyday street car driven 3-4 times a week for 1-2 hours a day. I don't want a racing set-up with all the gizmoes just what the topic stats, a little spice. Basically quicker shifts and to clean up the occasional lag or sloppy shift - Thats all.

I'm thinking all I need is a shift kit but which one?

# TCI?
# Trans-go?

Are hard shifts good for your trans? My mechanic said the trans is fine, but at the end of the day it's my car. He told me that hard shifts are not great for your trans, then I read that most of the kits say that they give life to the trans?!?!?


Any help, input etc always appreciated.
Cheers,
NZ

[John Kunkel]

It is a good idea to spice up the performance of the trans but, contrary to popular belief, rock hard shifts are not good for any part of the drivetrain. The goal is to eliminate excessive slippage and overlap, anything more is excessive.
The best bang for the buck is the TransGo TF-2 and about the best price can be found at bulkpart.

http://www.bulkpart.com/

[NZ 440R/T]

Kuewl, thanks mate. That pretty much cleared everything. I've been heading towards that Transgo kit, not B&M and TCI is too racey for what I want and need.


Cheers,
Carl

[dwc43]

TCI makes a street/strip shift kit and your car does not need a converter, the stock one will do.

[NZ 440R/T]

Cool, I'm not to keen on the converter anyways. TCI is always in my top list, I'll do my research on the Transgo kits.

[ehostler]

TransGo kits are superior to the TCI kit.

[dwc43]

Originally posted by NZ 440R/T
Cool, I'm not to keen on the converter anyways. TCI is always in my top list, I'll do my research on the Transgo kits.

I dont think you'll find one better than TCI. They work great and are worth the money.

[Stoga]

Interesting topic, just not a resto one. No biggy, just bumped it up here to see if it'll stir a bit more discussion.

[John Kunkel]

I'm going to say this again, even though most here won't believe it. All of the popular reprogramming kits are virtually identical, the B&M and TCI are identical. The big difference in the TransGo TF-2 is the inclusion of the converter fill manual valve which allows the converter to fill in Park, the other two currently don't include it. This makes the TransGo a better value.
Follow the directions for the level of firmness you desire.

[NZ 440R/T]

Thanks Stoga........


At the moment lads, I'm leaning towards Transgo's kits. I've searched a lot around google and about 70% of tricked auto Challenger's had a Transgo kit......if thats not telling me something nothing will.



John Kunkel = "The big difference in the TransGo TF-2 is the inclusion of the converter fill manual valve which allows the converter to fill in Park, the other two currently don't include it. This makes the TransGo a better value."


What do you mean exactly, "fill in park"? What does this mean in "driving" terms?


Thanks,
Carl.

[73calroadrunner]

No offense guys, and not meaning to raid this thread. I took a look at the bulkpart site and saw no listings for 727 shift kits even upon a specific search.

[NZ 440R/T]

Me niether but then I did a quick search on Google "Transgo Shift Kits 727" and it came up with a few including that site with kits for the Torqueflite. I think it's just a weird site or badly set out.

[jasontlit]

I believe what JK is speaking of is that in a stock tansmission situation fluid does not get circulated to the converter when in park, but with the T-go kit it now will.

My friend advised to warm the car up in N as the pump is engaged in N...but, I'm not sure if there is any real benefit. Although...if you warm up in N you are only 1 click from D!

[NZ 440R/T]

Thanks for the input Tilt......haven't seen you in while? Been working?

[ehostler]

Many transmissions don't get the vehicle to move, as soon as you take it out of Park (this is for a car that has been sitting for a day or two).

When you first put it into gear, the pump starts pushing fluid into the converter. Once the converter is filled, the tranny engages.

If you warm up in N, you will not see this problem, as the pump is filling the converter.

The trans-Go kit allows the pump to fill the converter, when still in Park.

[NZ 440R/T]

Thanks for filling me in ED. Is there any cons against having that option? Sounds good but just wondering as this was never done by the stock 727's if they were designed to handle this happening? Maybe a silly question but just curious as I don't wan't to add anything I'm unaware of. I'd rather have lazy shifts than put my trans under unwanted pressure/strain that is all.
Does anyone know someone or have one of these Transgo 2 kits installed?
If so did you notice any improvment on the shifts?


Thanks,
NZ

[MoparMarcIdaho]

is the only one I have ever used so I dont know about the rest,had good luck with there product so far,and if your trans dipstick says check idling in neutral on it,it doesnt fill the converter until its out of park.Causes problems when people think their trans if full when its not.

[jasontlit]

Yeah, work has been consuming me!

My take on the lazy/ firm shift issue, as loosely quoted from a Mopar mag:

The stock overlap between shifts is so your Grandma's groceries don't get knocked over during shifts.
More of a comfort issue than a transmission life issue.

So, shortening that overlap (firmer shift) some isn't going to kill it.
Of course that doesn't mean there isn't a threshold between a firm shift and a overly hard one. I don't know how hard is too hard.

I have the backyard/no $ "shift kit" in my 904 and can't tell you if this is a situation that is bad for my tranny. Basically a large spring has been removed (I think it is called an "actuator spring") and a particular hole was enlarged. I didn't pay real close attention as I was changing out the rear end gears at the time. But, my tranny is still alive and well.

See ya mate, J

[dwc43]

Originally posted by NZ 440R/T
Thanks for filling me in ED. Is there any cons against having that option? Sounds good but just wondering as this was never done by the stock 727's if they were designed to handle this happening? Maybe a silly question but just curious as I don't wan't to add anything I'm unaware of. I'd rather have lazy shifts than put my trans under unwanted pressure/strain that is all.
Does anyone know someone or have one of these Transgo 2 kits installed?
If so did you notice any improvment on the shifts?


Thanks,
NZ

This mod wont hurt it, but it's not needed. It only happens on worn out tranny's and in all the years, I've never had to put in in N. to get a converter to fill beofre driving it and I have some that sit for months. Mostly my chow cars in storage that right now are only making our club show once a year. The RoadRunner has not been out since last Sept and it has no converter fill issues and only 48000 miles on it too.

[dwc43]

Originally posted by jasontlit
Basically a large spring has been removed (I think it is called an "actuator spring") and a particular hole was enlarged.. But, my tranny is still alive and well.

See ya mate, J

An acumulator spring. That wont hurt it. It's the first thing to toss out in any shift kits instruction book.

[John Kunkel]

There is no benefit to removing the accumulator spring, it has no effect on the upshift and not all shift kits tell you to remove it. The oldest myth in the Mopar world.

While starting in Neutral instead of Park will fill the converter, placing the trans in Park while leaving the engine idling will shut off the flow to the cooling/lubricating circuit. The new style manual valve supplied in the TransGo kit not only allows converter fill in Park it also maintains lube flow in all gears it is a worthwhile upgrade.

On the bulkpart main page click the parts index, then Chrysler transmissions, then either TF 727 or TF904 and you will see valvebody kits listed.

[NZ 440R/T]

Thanks lads. I think I understand what your taking about with the N & P. Before my Challenger would only start in Nuetral. If I get this kit it will alllow me to start in Park? Also with smooth crisp shifts.

[MoparMarcIdaho]

where it starts,might be out of adjustment if it doesnt fire up in P,factory setup allows oil circulation in neutral and in gear selections only,not in park position.Transgo upgrade allows oil flow all the time.

[ehostler]

Not starting (cranking) in Park is a problem with the neutral safety switch or mal-adjusted shift linkage. If it is not shifted firmly into Park, then the safety switch will not allow the engine to crank.

[NZ 440R/T]

Originally posted by ehostler
Not starting (cranking) in Park is a problem with the neutral safety switch or mal-adjusted shift linkage. If it is not shifted firmly into Park, then the safety switch will not allow the engine to crank.

Thanks ED, again. That should be fine because my trans and linkage etc will be sorted out during/after the resto before it hits the road. Are there any Transgo kits that don't have this option? Or is it one of those items where if your buying you may as well get that as well, if you follow? I think what I should do is wait until my car is back on the road and see how it preforms and how it shifts, rather than get something straight away without trying the trans in stock form. Better than rushing I guess.....who knows I might like my TF-727 the way Ma Mopar built it. Good to get this input and info though rather than later.

[dwc43]

I would not worry about that option too much. I have never found a use for it myself. Just put it together and drive it for a while and see how you like it and then you can always put one in latter if you dont like it stock.

[NZ 440R/T]

Yip thats what I think too, can't get all the rave without being good. Soooo I'll keep it as the "Legend" and drive it for a while.

[451Mopar]

I have used several different shift kits, and the Trans-Go TF-2 is my choice. It is very simular to the B&M TransPack kit, but as mentiond the Trans-Go kits (TF-1 and TF-2) come with a new manual valve for the pump in park function. Also, the Trans-Go kits have some of the best instructions of all the kits. Don't throw these out, they are a great reference. The cost of the Trans-Go kits were $69 from Transtar http://www.transtar.com
For my street/strip transmission, I use the 3.8:1 front band lever, with a slightly modified cast front band (a few extra holes drilled in it simular to the steel wrap bands), and the 4-clutch front drum with 9-springs installed.
This gives a very firm, but not harsh gear change. Some of the cheap kits give very hard shifts, but that is because the transmission is binding up between shifts.

[NZ 440R/T]

Originally posted by 451Mopar
I have used several different shift kits, and the Trans-Go TF-2 is my choice. It is very simular to the B&M TransPack kit, but as mentiond the Trans-Go kits (TF-1 and TF-2) come with a new manual valve for the pump in park function. Also, the Trans-Go kits have some of the best instructions of all the kits. Don't throw these out, they are a great reference. The cost of the Trans-Go kits were $69 from Transtar http://www.transtar.com
For my street/strip transmission, I use the 3.8:1 front band lever, with a slightly modified cast front band (a few extra holes drilled in it simular to the steel wrap bands), and the 4-clutch front drum with 9-springs installed.
This gives a very firm, but not harsh gear change. Some of the cheap kits give very hard shifts, but that is because the transmission is binding up between shifts.

WHOA!!!! Great input, thanks 451!