mushy 318

[hakrite]

Hi: Here's what I have. I have a '70 Barracuda Gran Coupe Convertible, 318, 727, 326? open diff. I'm not a mechanic, and have only gone so far as a water pump or intake swap. Everything else gets subbed out.
Here's my problem. When I drive around town and the car gets hot, it's hard to restart, and when it does finally fire - it's real lazy sounding until I can get it to rev.
I've taken the Therm/4 and iron intake off and replaced it with a few other carbs. I now have an (SBQ??) Edelbrock with a Street Performer carb. It didn't change a thing.
What I want is more pep, and reliability. I'd like to drive the car on a 1000 mile trip this summer but hesitate. I've gotten advice on airgap intakes by Edlbrk, elec. fuel pumps, cam swaps, etc but don't want to keep chasing my tail. Is there any advice out there to help? Thanks Hakrite

[MoparMarcIdaho]

where does the temp gauge read?Might just need to flush out the cooling system,the alloy of metal in chrysler engines is prone to rusting more so than other makes,its stronger but rusts quicker.So thats where iI would start,then install a cooler thermostat,make sure the fan clutch is OK if so equipped,and make sure your timing is right,and look in the distributor to make sure the counterweights arnt stuck.Does it like to turn slow when warm?That tells us that its either overadvanced or counterweights are sticking.Black smoke?that tells us the carburator is flooding.Just basic stuff to get ready for the summer driving season,no biggie.

[hakrite]

I sure do appreciate the quick response. Here's some more info. I don't remember if I had the cooling system flushed but if so it won't hurt to do it again now. The temp gauge seems to have two settings. It's either moved just a click or it goes to the hot but not red hot location. I can see the wisdom of two gauge upgrades - tach and temp.
There's a small rad in front of the big one (tranny cooler?). I don't know about fan clutch and dist counter weights - it was upgraded with electronic ignition though. I'll start with the flush and see if ther get's it done - man that would be a plea$ant surprise for sure. Thanks, Hakrite
PS, has anyone out there changed the lapbelts to shoulder belts in a convertible E-body? ??

[dwc43]

It's either a tranny cooler or the old a/c condenser. If it's the a/c and your not running it, remove it for better airflow to the rad. Clean the rad and add a 160* T stat. for starters. Set total timming to 36* with a dial back timing light. Get rid of hte edel carbs. They give major trouble. Get you a new thermoquad from Advance auto for around 189 here. IT will give you the most throttle response of any carb. Make sure it's jetted right. Too lean will make it over heat too. Make sure the stock 5 blade fan and shroud are in place too.

[MoparMarcIdaho]

without a rollbar,I guess you could try to fab up something from a donor vehicle on the doorjam,I dont know.What kind of fan does it have?you could put in a real temperature gauge too.Electric fans seem to be getting more popular lately,might consider that.Pull the cap and rotate the rotor and make sure it returns to idle position,then its OK.Does it turn over slow when hot?

[hakrite]

Thanks guys. I thought the problem was the ThermoQuad from the start, and pulled it off years ago? I still have that one, so would it be better to have that rebuilt or buy the one you suggest?
There's a few items I didn't add in my initial post and now I feel like a dip-sh%$. I have a 318 but it's been fitted with 360 heads (not swirl port as far as I know), dual exhaust and 4-barrel carb/intake. I'll try these suggestions you all gave, least expensive first. Thanks again for the help. Hakrite

[dwc43]

As long as the bowl is not leaking you can rebuild it or get the new one either way will work. The heads will add some hp, but it wont hurt the cooling of it nor will hte intake. Just check the timming and jetting and I bet you find your trouble. Also make sure your belts are not slipping on the pulleys too.

[rumblefish360]

Do you have headers? Heat from the headers will soak into the starter and make it slow. Sooner or later, it'll fry the starter.
Again, as said before, time the engine to stock specs. Good advice was given above.
What is a SBQ?

More pep is a snap. Looking for total streetabilty and HP?
Click here. http://www.geocities.com/alwest_83/318
Tony has done some work and backed it up.

[hakrite]

Thanks again guys, I'll check those belts. They've been singing lately and probably need to be replaced anyway.
On the heat thing, I thought about that and wasn't sure what to do. I heard there's a HiPo starter that's smaller and makes room for a heat shield. I also was told to shield the fuel line from the exhaust (no headers).
I'm thinking the old T-Quad is so whack, replacing it would be better. But why would that carb be better than any of the Holley's and Edl's? I've always heard horror stories about them.
Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.
Oh the SBQ?? thing ... I'm not sure what the intake is. I bought it from a guy at work, and I thought he said it was QBSB? or somethign like that. Not sure. . he said it's an small block Mopar and wanted $50 so I jumped. A motor builder told me that it's the fuel economy version of an Edlebrock intake and that it would be a good idea to swap it out for one of the airgap intakes they just came out with. You guys have been great. Hakrite

[rumblefish360]

With the MoPar mini starter, you won't need a heat sheild, but it's still a good idea.

I'm thinking the old T-Quad is so whack, replacing it would be better.

The horror stories come from when engines over heat and warp the plastic mid section of the carb. Thus leaking fuel. It'll take some serious heat to do that.
The T-Q is a better street strip carb. 2 problems with it. 1. People are scared to mess with something they don't know about. So they go with the Holleys etc....
2. Replacement parts are not imposible to find, but tuning parts are. Bend AFB rods to size for tuning dutys. Clip off the extra metal on the rod to fit. (Cake walk)
If your not going to use a T-Q, then do ethier a Carter AVS or step up to a Demon.
I don't know about that intake you have. Your going to have to help me out there. Look on the intake for a clue.
Otherwise, for a mild build, the Edel. performer is what you want. If your looking to get serious in making some power, the Edel. RPM or offerings by Weiand in there dual planes are excellent intakes for the job.
With these intakes, I don't recomend the T-Q because it needs an adapter to fit on. The hood may not close then.
I'll see if a bud can't post a pic for ya.

But for now, we'll stick with the over heating issue first. Once thats taken care of, we'll proceed from there.
1st things 1st.

[sgt._mezz]

here ya go rumble.

this is a shot of the carb with spacer

[sgt._mezz]

and this is a shot from the fender side. you can see the air cleaner stud pokin up. it won't clear stock hoods!

[sgt._mezz]

heres a shot with the air cleaner on.

btw, all these pics are courtesy of Rumblefish360...

[rumblefish360]

My man MEZZ, thank you very much. As you can see, the side shots are just about level with the fender. Slightly a hair under level. This carb isn't going to clear with a 3 inch paper element.

[George G. Leverette]

A correction on those "new" thermoquads from advance. The carbs are not new but rebuilt, (advance\checker\kragen) are the same automotive parts group with different names in different parts of the country. I ordered one of the T. Q. carbs through Pep Boys because they were cheaper than Kragen or Autozone but all come from the same distributor. I had a talk with the factory representative because the order was for a 72 340 and I received a carb for a 71 340 with the canted idle adjustment screws, The guy at the factory was unfamiliar with the numbering system for T. Q.s and didnt have a reference? I will check periodically with the rebuild facility for a 72 340 carb.

[hakrite]

Hey folks, sorry, I was out of commission there and unable to respond. It's odd, the first couple attempts I couldn't see the photo's, but now I can see the carb shots. I have the Rally hood on mine and I think I could raise the carb up another inch or two without any problems with hood clearance.
Do any of you know anything about those new AirGap Performer intakes from Edleb.? I think I saw a picture of on on their web site. I thought along with your advice to flush the rad, install a new 160 thermostadt, set the timing, and even go back to the ThermoQuad carb - getting some more distance from heat source would be a plus?
I'll have to see how finances are before ordering a ministarter. A friend installed one on his older Chevy and he seems to think it's helping his heating problems.
Anyway, thanks again for helping. Do you all have a seperate column in this forum to post pictures of your cars? I'd like to see what you all are driving. Hakrite

[dwc43]

The mini starter is a good investment. IT will get it away from your header heat. The thermoquad is almost always the wat to go. Holley and Champion build the new Thermoquads for Advance with completely new bowls. I have an web site url somewhere for that company too. They use all new parts. The air gap will work better with a more top end built engine, and they make a phenolic spacer for the thermoquad that will get the heat away from it too.

[hakrite]

Hey all - wow, I got a birthday reminder and found my old thread here about the mushy 318. So I thought I should close the chapter on this one - here's what I ended up doing. Long story short - because it's the original 318, we decided to take it out while it's still in decent running shape, bag it, store it, and replace it with a 360. I discovered I didn't have the 727 tranny as I was told, but it's the original 904, so we rebuilt it with some HiPo parts to handle the 400(+/-) horses (we haven't confirmed that HP yet). She's good and lively now though! One thing might explain the mushy 318 - is one guy I mentioned this to, had the same problem and he thought it was because the water ports on the 360 heads don't line up well with the 318 block = perpetual overheating issues. This was after the 360 engine swap of course, so now I'm thinking I might have saved the $8k I chucked down on that project - and fixed the problem with a set of standard 318 heads and a 4-core radiator? (...hindsight is 20/20...). Thanks to you all, who chimed in on this. If anyone is mildly interested, I'll share the dyno results as soon as I swap out the rear-end (anyone interested in trading your 3:55SG for my 3:23-open AND a 3:91SG?) - Hakrite

[dwc43]

Your friend misinformed you. The 360,340,and 318 heads have all the water passages in the same place. There is no alignment problems. We've run the 360 heads on several 318's over the years and they don't cause over heating.

[hakrite]

Well I gotta tell you that I feel better knowing that ... because it was really bugging me to think I could have avoided the "summer of spending" on that built 360 by simply slapping a new set of 318 heads on it. Bottom line, is this 360 has balls and it makes this car is much more fun to play with now. When I heard the "ports won't match up" thing, I about wanted to puke ... kind of put a damper on the whole thing. I'll get down from the clock-tower now. Thanks. Hak

[Dick]

This thread brought back sad memories of one of our favorite members. MoparMarcIdaho, a responder in this thread, was killed in a motorcycle accident on June 20th of 2006.

[hakrite]

I'm sorry to hear that ... Sounded like a great guy, and a true Mopar fan. Thoughts and prayers to his family. Hak

[chirorod]

some other causes of overheating. radiator may be plugged, and could be that a flush won't do it. also a plugged muffler can do it. the other suggestions are super. everybody has done a great job.
chirorod

[hakrite]

Hey Chirorod - I guess any one of the suspected causes could have been the culprit, or any combination of them ... I just decided to clean the slate and start fresh. So a motor was built. One thing I'd like anyone's thoughts on is the hood. I have the ralley hood with the non-functional scoops. I toyed with the idea of buying another hood, and opening those scoops so they, at the very least, can vent out some heat. And for that matter, I have yet to find an air vent into the pass compartment on these convertibles - but man o man it needs one. There seems to be a great amoung of heat building up under the hood, and it gets way too hot at the feet inside as well - so I wonder how much things could be improved by getting some air moving through the engine bay .. and some cool air moving through the interior? Has anyone ever cut open a set of those rally hood scoops? Hak

[chirorod]

if the heat is building at the firewall, floor pans, the first thing that comes to mind is fan or fan clutch. you know, this is now old news with you going to a new motor, but it would be interesting to take off the radiator cap with the engine cold, run it with a thermometer in the radiator neck to see what the real temp is.
chirorod

[dwc43]

Originally Posted by hakrite

There seems to be a great amoung of heat building up under the hood, and it gets way too hot at the feet inside as well - so I wonder how much things could be improved by getting some air moving through the engine bay .. and some cool air moving through the interior? Has anyone ever cut open a set of those rally hood scoops? Hak

I've cut them open before, but you can't get any performance gain from them cause they are too small for a ram air effect. They will help relieve some under hood heat though. Those cars have a small frontal area so there's not a lot of airflow through them. As for the floor board heat, you can add some heat barrier material under the carpet and that should help some.