Lifter noise

[rodsvolare]

I have an 83 Dodge truck that I just installed a rebuilt 360 motor and it has quite a bit of lifter noise now. It starts and runs good, has good oil pressure. I kept it at 2000 rpm after initial startup for 20 minutes. Changed rocker arms , shafts, and push rods from the old 318 but it still makes lifter noise???

Any thoughts or suggestions??

[rodsvolare]

I talked to the machinist who did the work on the engine for me and his solution was to drain the 10/30 oil and put in a detergent 30 weight. I know people used to do this back in the 50's and 60's but hav'nt heard of anyone using detergent oil for years??

Any thoughts or help would be appreciated!!
Thanks

[Stoga]

You're probably not going to like this suggestion, but I'd take each lifter out and prime it by hand. This means sticking it down in a bucket of clean oil and working the plunger in the center with a pushrod until all the air bubbles are gone. Then reinstall the lifter and move on to the next one.

Are you getting good oil flow to the tops of the heads and over the rockers?
Also, just in case, check pushrod length. I dont have the spec handy for small blocks, anyone else have that info they can share?
Did you rebuild it yourself or have someone else do it for you?Somethings not right there, and if that dont get it, maybe the engine should go back to them.
One last thing, was the block a high mileage block, just curious.

[rodsvolare]

Stoga thanks for the reply. I was thinking I need to prime the l
lifters like you said.
The motor came out of a 74 Sattelite ( cop car) with 40,000 on odometer?? They said it ran but smoked.

I have had the valve covers off and the rockers had oil pooled in them, so I thought that ment oil was getting to the top of motor.

I also changed rocker arms shafts and push rods from the old 318 motor in to see if it made any difference- no change.

I think I will pull valve cover and run it and make sure I am getting oil up to the top.

[Stoga]

Ok, with only 40K , or even 140K, the lifter bores should be fine.
Only if you were doing a high end racing motor would you consider rebushing the lifter bores, and only then if there was some obvious flaw in them.
Good idea running it with the valve covers off, but take and old valve cover and cut it in half, then bolt that to the bottom half of the head. It'll help reduce the amount of oil hitting the exhaust manifolds, and with oil and hot surfaces, you should always be prepared for a possible fire hazard. Though most likely just a lot of smoke from the oil burning off.
Measure your push rods and find out the length, then check back here. Also, check the condition of the tips and push rod cups in the rockers. Odds are they are ok, but if they look excessively worn, cheap insurance to change them. Same with the bottom of the rocker tube where the rocker is pushed up against it.
If its got a lot of wear or grooves wore in it, that can pick up a lot of slop in the valve train.
You're probably ok, you wouldnt have any oil up top if there was a problem, I was just concerned that possibly a cam bearing had been installed wrong.
It is probably just the lifters needing primed though...knock on wood!!

[Desert465]

You say you have good oil pressure, do you have a gage or just a light ?
Just curious to what it is. I spent a long time looking for a ticking noise in my 318 on a newly rebuilt motor and it turned out to be missing oil plugs

Wayne

[delshin]

Hi rodsvolare
I just rebuilt an 89 360. I believe that the lifter preload was about 0.010". So if any head work was done or parts were changed, you may need to account for it. I installed a comp cams set up. If I start the car everyday, I will not get any lifter niose in the morning. If I let the car sit for 2 to 3 days, I will get some lifter noise for about 5 to 10 seconds, then it goes away. I am new to mopars. Do they all do that? Or is the lifters I got from comp cams at fault? Car runs great other than that. Good luck.

[rodsvolare]

Thanks again for replies. The truck has factory oil gage, which always seemed right to me ( went up or down with rpm's and engine temp).

I find it hard to believe the rocker arm gear is at fault as it is what was in the 318 before I pulled it out and was fine then.

Desert would I see oil leaking from exterior of motor if oil plug was missing?

Delsin I have had this same thing you describe happen to many of my mopars over the years.

[bbeckwith]

I believe the stock pushrod length for an LA motor is 7.5" Not sure if an 83 motor is LA or Magnum tho, never paid any attention to anything that wasnt from the seventies. lol I would invest in some new lifters and pushrods if there is any evidence any rods are bent. Try rolling the pushrods on a flat surface, if they go clunk clunk clunk, you need to replace them.

[Desert465]

Rodsvolare,

I would make sure your oil gauge is reliable and check for correct oil pressure. The oil plugs I am talking about are internal, my engine was “professionally” built but not by a Mopar guy and I spent the better part of 3 years playing with the noise and doing other things as well to the car and I finally I talked to a real Engine builder and he new what the problem was right away. It was missing three out of 4 or 5 internal oil plugs thus oil was flowing but not enough pressure to pump up the lifters and when I went to heaver oil it would stop for a while but when the oil thinned it would start all over.
Anyway I don’t want to send you down the wrong path unless your oil pressure is low and there are a lot of great ideas to check that have been posted.

Wa

[84ram]

Maybe someone else has already suggested this, and I didn't see it, but have you checked to make sure that the rocker arm shafts are not installed backwards, or upside down? (oil hole @ the wrong end, or on top?) I'm not sure if they will fit more than one way, but I believe that they will fit more than one way.
Also, are the plugs in the ends of the rocker arm shafts? And have you checked to make sure that the pushrods are not the wrong ones / too short? Just some suggestions.

John C.

[dodger1]

Rodsvolare, here are pushrod specs (from "How to rebuild your small-block Mopar") for 67-86 318's and 68-86 340 and 360's: O.E.M. part # 4095291, length 7 31/64 ", dia. 9/32". My 1980 factory service manual does NOT give pushrod specs which would indicate there is no difference between 318's and 360's as of that date. So your 318 pushrods should be OK if they are straight. Good luck!!

[rodsvolare]

Thanks for all the help!! After reading my Mopar small block A engine book, I ordered a rocker arm shaft shim kit. As I had the heads milled and they say this can cause the noise I have.

I hope this solves the problem.

[rodsvolare]

Well the shim kit didn't help. I did run motor with valve covers off to see if I'm getting oil and it doesn't appear to be getting enough, as it just dribbles down rocket arm @2000rpm. I put a different oil pressure gauge on it and it would get 50psi @2800 rpm but it drops to 0 at idle.

I'm thinking I am missing an oil plug as Desert465 suggested or have some restriction of oil getting to my rocker arms. Also, it is real easy to push the push rods down into the lifters like they arn't getting enough oil???

Does anyone know where I could get pictures or description of where oil plugs belong??

Any other thoughts or suggestions.

[Desert465]

This is starting to sound very familiar, my motor is a 1968 318 but I would assume the oil galley plugs would be the same but not 100% sure.
Mine was supposedly just rebuilt and you indicated that yours was also so I’ll let you know what I checked and found.
The first plug that always seems to get missed but was in mine is down the oil pressure sending unit hole at the back of the block, the easiest way to check for this is to remove the oil sending unit and insert something that will fit down the hole like a straight coat hanger, do not force it down as you do not want to move the plug if it is in. When it hits bottom put a mark on the coat hanger at the same level as the block and pull it out, measure the distance the coat hanger went down, I think it should be about 7 ¼ or 7 ½ but not sure and if it’s more than that the plug is more than likely missing. I hope that one is in because it’s a paint to get one in (can we say pull the motor!!).
There is also a plug just behind the oil filter and you can see if it’s there by removing the oil filter and plate. Note: if you do remove the plate behind the oil filter you will need a new gasket when you put it back on or it will leak (personal experience).
The following three plugs were missing in my engine.
First one was on the driver side at the back of the block just to the side of the distributor, I hade my engine out and heads off when I found these so I’m not sure how you can check, basically if you draw a line following the lifters towards the back there should be plug at the end. You might be able to remove your distributor and be able to see where it is.
The other two that I did not have are directly behind the cam thrust plate and I think the only way to check these is to remove the thrust plate.
This is getting kinda long and hard to follow I’m sure so if you want just let me know and we could hook up on the phone and I might be able to explain it better.
I used a book called “How to rebuild small-block mopar engine” as a guide. It says the following for oil plugs.
“There are five ½-in pipe-thread oil-gallery plugs, three in the rear, one inside the block, directly above and in front of the oil-pump drive gear, and one on the left side where the oil-filter adapter bolts on. Two ½-in cup-type plugs are beside the number-1 cam-bearing bore in the front face of the block

[rodsvolare]

Desert465 Thanks for the reply!! This is a big help. I have already looked for the plug in the oil filter and have pulled the pan to check for one that you can see if you take off the oil pump and the rear main cap.

I will check for all the one's you have listed , but I wasn't sure where to look. The machine shop pulled all these when cleaning the block and didn't get the frost plug kit to put them back and so I wasn't sure .

Thanks again I may call you if I can't figure it out.

[bbeckwith]

I have some photos to share as the old saying, a picture is worth a thousand words rings true. This first photo doesnt really show the plug but you get the idea I hope.

[bbeckwith]

oops

[bbeckwith]

stupid board rules, cant post more than one message in one minute goofed up my last post, retrying

[bbeckwith]

next, this photo shows the two plug holes in the front of the block for the lifter oil passageways,

I dont have a good pic of the back of the block however, to show you the other plug but sounds like you have checked for that one anyways. If you look at the back of the block, you'll see where there is a passageway for the oil sending unit that is vertical, and a horizontal passageway to the oil filter, where these two meet is where the coat hanger should stop if you drop it down the hole for the sending unit. if it goes farther, then that's the missing plug.

hope this helps

[MOPARMANJAMES]

Originally posted by 84ram
Maybe someone else has already suggested this, and I didn't see it, but have you checked to make sure that the rocker arm shafts are not installed backwards, or upside down? (oil hole @ the wrong end, or on top?) I'm not sure if they will fit more than one way, but I believe that they will fit more than one way.
Also, are the plugs in the ends of the rocker arm shafts? And have you checked to make sure that the pushrods are not the wrong ones / too short? Just some suggestions.

John C.

Rodsvolare, have you checked this yet as 84ram suggested?,
this is a common mistake, you have to line up the oiling hole in the shaft (there is only 1 per shaft), with the oil galley holes in the stand that come up from the cam bearing. Also you might run a small pipe cleaner down the passagway to help check for blockages.

[rodsvolare]

Well I double checked rocker arm shafts and oil holes are pointing down with notch pointing down and to front on left head and to rear on right head.

bbeckwith, thanks for the pics, I have all the plugs in that are shown in your pics.

desert465 I have accounted for the plug down the oil sender hole, the two behind the cam thrust plate, the one in the oil filter area, and the one looking down the distributor hole. The only ones I can't account for are any others at the back of block ( would have to take out tranny or motor out to see), and the one "inside the block, directly above and in front of the oil pump drive gear". However is this the one I can see down distributor hole? Wouldn't any plugs missing in the back of the block leak oil down the back of the motor? This was not happening!

I'm really lost and frustrated- tired too, ben long day at work, side job, and working on this.

[Desert465]

Iam not sure you can see that last plug, It's inside the block so if it was missing it would not leak ouside the block. It should be at the end of the oil galley that the oil lifters go into, I think I used a coak hanger and put a bend in it to feel if it was missing.

[MOPARMANJAMES]

The one down inside the distributor hole for the lifter galley will not leak outside if it is missing, there is one directly behind it in the back of the block that you would definately have noticed a leak with if it were missing.
You can see the oil galley plug if you remove the distributor, look down at the gear on the intermediate shaft towards the front of the engine.
There you should see a plug or a threaded hole if it is missing.
If you are real good and lucky, you can get a 1/4" drive ratchet
with an allen driver on it and install the new plug after you have removed the intermediate shaft.

Good luck and may the Gods of oil galley plugs be with you.

[rodsvolare]

Hey thanks guys!! I have an old bare block sitting around so I will go look at to see if I can figure out the plug you guys are talking about. I don't remember one in this location. I was 99% sure that all the others I had put in.

None of this would have happened if the machine shop would have remembered to order plug kit and put it in. Not sure I will ever use them again.

[rodsvolare]

I found the missing plug!!! It is the one above and in front of the oil pump gear, can't see it but can feel that it is not there.
I looked at an old block so I could find it.

Thanks again for all your help!!! Now if I can just find a way to get it in, I think I can though.

[Desert465]

That's great you found the problem. Let us all now how things work out.

[rodsvolare]

It's running!! No lifter noise, runs great , good(much better) oil pressure. Runs like it should I am real happy with it now.

Thanks for all the help!!

[bbeckwith]

glad it worked out for you Rodsvolare.