Turbo with 509 cam

[bbaspense]

Will a turbo work well with the MP 509 cam... I have a 360 in my Ram 50 that I'd like to add two turbos from a 2.2.. I wonder if the 509 cam that is in the engine now will respond well to boost..

Also how much boost can I safely use with cast pistons?

[dwc43]

That cam wont work too well with a turbo and the 2.2's will be too small once you hit top end.

[flight704]

turbo cams usually dont have much overlap ,,,it causes drastic pulses in the exhaust on the low end and it screws the turbo up.


as far as using turbos from a 2.2 how much power do you want to make?
those are garret t3's ,, each turbo is capable of supporting around 250 hp. that would give you around 500 ponies more or less... different a/r housings affect how and when the turbo spoools and where you get into your power. .if you are buying new turbos you can order then with the housings you want.

I would call turbonetics and ask them. for a recomendation.

hope this helps, and good luck with your toy

[bbaspense]

The 360 right now pushes a 2700 lb Ram 50 truck to 13.08 best so far.. I thought a pair of turbos might help for a few more ponies and maybe a little more consistency ..

It might make about 300 horsepower..

[flight704]

well i am a turbo junky boost is a substitute for cubic inches


so i say go for it.

[TrashedCharger]

I have been messing around with turbochargers for the past 6 months now and I have learned a lot about their tendencies.

I am building a 360 for my '72 D100 Adventurer SE frame off resto and I am considering turbocharging it as well.

My brother bought a 1988 Toyota Supra with the intercooled, Turbocharged 7M-GTE 3.0 litre inline 6 and we replaced the head gasket and turbo in it as well as some other slight modifications.

What I have learned about turbochargers is that you have to be careful when you pick your poison or it will blow up in your face, without enough time to correct anything from symptoms.

Here are a few things you should know about turbochargers before you go flying:

Do your research with cfm ratings and find the correct turbo for your engine. Turbochargers vary in power bands so make sure that when the turbocharger is outfitted with a new compressor wheel and exhaust turbine that you tell the person what RPM your peak hp and torque come in. This is so it's peak boost can be matched with your engines RPM needs. Just like you would when you select the camshaft and torque converter for your application.

The turbocharger that you pick should be rated against the cfm of your engine and not the engine it came off of originally. If you were to use a turbocharger from a 2.2L car, it would either be an Airesearch or a Garret T3.

For example, if the peak boost was 8 PSI @ 5000 RPM, then when outfitted on a v8 with 300+ cubic inches it would build 8 PSI at nearly half of the RPM (almost idle) that the 2.2 would have. This sounds good, but it probably won't agree with your camshaft and torque converter combination. It will also stop building boost before you are at the end of your power band. This is from it creating too much exhaust restriction by not having enough area between the exhaust turbines for adequate flow at high cfm. This condition is known as turbo lag.

Stay away from high overlap in a camshaft selection, this prevents having any exhaust turbulence problems and will allow the turbine to spin smoothly.

Find a low compression ratio for your choice of engine. Anything above 8.5:1 is asking for a blown head gasket. Choose a good multi-layer metal head gasket. The cost seems steep at first, until antifreeze destroys the lubricating qualitys of the oil being fed through the turbo and you have a shrapnelled, $1000 exhaust oiler bolted to your header.

Make sure that your head and block are milled for a metal head gasket. If you have the engine resurfaced for a standard gasket, you'll run the risk of it not seating on the metal head gasket.

Use head studs or at least a good set of ARP bolts. This will also make your head gasket situation more livable.

Use a good, high output ignition system (40,000 volts or higher). This will prevent the compression of the forced induction to blow out the plasma of your spark and possibly causing a fatal misfire.

You can either use a draw through type induction (turbo draws fuel from the carburetor through itself along with air and compresses them into the intake) or you can use a vacuum/boost fuel pressure regulator and a fuel pump capable of at least the PSI of your boost.
The drawthrough system is more simple because you don't need to add more fuel to the pressurized air as it builds from the turbo, but it's downfall is that you will be feeding hot fuel into your engine which can cause vaporlocking.

Draw through systems also prevent you from running an intercooler. This is because running pressurized air and atomized fuel through a giant radiator is essentialy a giant bomb in the front of your car waiting for a hard dip or speed bump to send your hood and radiator flying sky high.

Fuel injection is always an option, but gets technical and $$$ a lot. Non-draw through carbureted systems just require an air tight seal, the vacuum/boost fuel pressure regulator and equal vent pressure coming from the inside and outside the float bowl vents. This is simply done by running some fuel injection grade fuel hose from the float bowl vent back into the pressurized air ducting for venting. This type of induction system can be run through an intercooler if chosen and does not feed fuel through the exhaust temperature turbo unit.

I would preffer a slant six to turbo over a v8 simply because of their single cylinder bank layout, the room for the turbocharger, the intake and exhaust are on the same side of the head and because of the amount of head bolts. That makes it the perfect engine for a turbocharger.

I would not run anymore than 8 PSI in a 360 with an initial compression ratio of any more than 8.75:1

[TrashedCharger]

P.S.

Backpressure is bad in a turbocharged induction system. Any air pressure trying to make it's way back into the turbo will slow it down.

Get the biggest exhaust system you can fit on it!

[TrashedCharger]

P.S. P.S.

One last, but importaint thing. Make sure that you blueprint your distributor curve for the correct timing. You will also need to run a 10 degree initial advance at idle if you plan on getting the right combustion with a pressurized intake. This also means no more 87 octane.

[flight704]

I forgot to address your compression question= cast pistons will do the job // guys in the turbo dodge boards run 18 psi of boost on hypershittectic cast pistons all the time. where you run into problems with cast pistons is spraying alot of nitrous with boost ,, big boost motors 20 psi and up or higher base compression motors.

You can build a 9 or 10 / 1 base compression motor and boost it,, it is possible but it is counter productive. You will get more power cheaper running 15 to 20 psi on a lower comp motor than you will trying to run 13 psi on 11/1 comp motor, I am building a turbo motor with a base compression of 9.5/1 myself. But i am limited on my boost levels becasue i am running blow through carbs instead of injection, I have a 15 psi boost limitation or i will damage my carbs. so i am building my toy around my limitation , also higher base compression motors need higer octane fuel ,,,are you comforatable filling up with 110 octane race gas at 5 bucks a gallon to cruise the street???.. also higher comp motors build alot more heat than lower comp motors but it can be done safely but you have to limit the boost. There are all kinds of kits for 5.0 mustangs where you run the factory cast pistons but they only run about 8 psi of boost. If 8 psi will suit you then go ahead if you want a 25 or 30 psi monster it gets more involved/expensive

I guess the question is how much power do you want ?? and is it all out race or a street cruiser / daily driver?

YOU HAVE TO DECIDE WHAT YOU WANT Then build your truck within those parameters. ususally the question that decides for us is how much money do you want to spend???

UNIVERSAL LAW #1 HP ISN'T CHEAP

I mean i know guys that have 800hp big blocks but they get 4 mpg if you baby them , not too good for cruising to a car show that is 100 miles away but what a blast at the drag strip..


anyways good luck and i hope you get it done

[Stus300]

you can run jsut about any stock motor safely on 5psi..and that will still give you a big boost in hp...just need to adjust a few things like, timing.....for starters...headgasket is the other...and "maybe" spark plugs, and defintly fuel..

but like someone said, all depends on a few tings...how much boost? efi or carb?

even with 5 psi, you are lookin to jump a a hundred ponies or so....

but the point about the cam is very true and the compression ratio...

cant ahve a lot of overlap at all...boosted motors run a bit different than N/A

and you are asking for less problems with a lower compression...not piston compression but FINAL compresion "should" be about 8:1 that is about as safe as it gets....and still run, and octane, you be at 91......but I would do as someone suggested and call a few turbo places and see what they say...

[TrashedCharger]

You can always govern and adjust your maximum boost with a mechanical valve that restricts air pressure/vacuum to your wastegate. This takes a $30 valve and some hose inbetween the wastegate controller and the pressure feed line on the turbo housing somwhere.

Stus300 is right. Start with 5psi and go up from there to a comfortable amount of boost.