Header choice and exhaust questions

[ttraut@unlockit]

I'm building a 440 for my 69RR and have a header question. I know that TTI is a preferred header (based on the postings I've read here) but are they THAT much better? Are they worth the extra $300 over Hooker or extra $500 over Hedman? Also, is the ceramic coating worth the extra $150?

I am running out of cash but will pay the extra if needed.

Also, it's time to replace the exhaust system at the same time. What diameter exhaust tubing would be best for my setup? X-pipe vs. H-pipe. What mufflers do you recommend?

My setup:
440 + .030 over, completely rebuild
Ported 904 heads
10.1 compression
Comp Cam 270
4-speed

Thanks!

Terry

[23T]

IMHO yes.yes and yes, 2 1/2" , X pipe and mufflers are a personal choice as to how much noise you like or can get by with in you local area area

[NZ 440R/T]

My 0.02c

Get the TTI headers, the fit is the best on the market and I have hardly if ever seen a bad word about them except the price, but!, you pay for what you get. I know my Challenger gets the best.

My 440ci for the Challenger is running:

TTi Headers 1-3/4" to 2" Collectors through to a 2-1/2" TTi Exhaust system with X-Pipe and Dynomax Super turbo mufflers and 2-1/2" exhaust tips that resemble the original tips.

[dwc43]

Originally Posted by ttraut@unlockit

I'm building a 440 for my 69RR and have a header question. I know that TTI is a preferred header (based on the postings I've read here) but are they THAT much better? Are they worth the extra $300 over Hooker or extra $500 over Hedman? Also, is the ceramic coating worth the extra $150?

I am running out of cash but will pay the extra if needed.

Also, it's time to replace the exhaust system at the same time. What diameter exhaust tubing would be best for my setup? X-pipe vs. H-pipe. What mufflers do you recommend?

My setup:
440 + .030 over, completely rebuild
Ported 904 heads
10.1 compression
Comp Cam 270
4-speed

Thanks!

Terry

TTI's are not worth the extra coin and the ones I have seen run too close to the tranny and tranferes some heat over to it and heat is the number onbe killer of auto trannies. The coating is not worth it either. I have even seen an increase in temps on some cars. The best thing to do is get a standard header and coat it yourself with some stuff from Tech line and then wrap them with header wrap. This will get you the most gain in reducing under hood temps, even though the main goal is keeping the heat inside the tube to increase gas expansion rates. 2 1/2" pipe is what you need with an X pipe installed. H pipes are real tricky and need to be designed to the particular engine. Some times H pipes have shown very little gain, no gain and sometimes even a lose in power. The X pipe always shows some kind of gain in Hp and always a gain in torque. A good site to check out on X pipes is by the guys that invented them to start with, go to www.drgas.com and read up on there tech pages. A great muffler to use would also be the Flow Tech if you can stand the noise or use the Flowmasters.

[rumblefish360]

DWC is the odd man out here today folks. I don't like the prices of the TTI headers, but from everone I have seen with them, there words about them all come together in about the same voice.
1, They'll all agreed to never ever go back to any other header on the market. They love the fit.
2, How the coating can raise underhood temps is beyond me. There was a clear cut difference between uncoated and coated temps when I used it. Not that I would recomend grabing the header now. The wrap is much better at controling temps. This I know from the been there done that camp.
So now you ask yourself why I don't use the wrap when I know it controls heat better?
1st, it's a pain to install. Then, according to thermo-tech, (The brand I used), if you do not have even exhaust temps on each tube, the wrap can damge the pipe by subjecting it to increased temps not normaly found in the pipe. Why is this bad? Because the constant thermo cycleing of extreme temps can weaking the metal. 3rd, incunjunction with the last, the wrap will retain water. So when you go splashing through a puddle and cool of the pipe rapidly, the water can also stay in the wrap and cause rust. The water has a problem escapeing. (Remember, been there done that, never again will i do it.)
3rd, Looks great
4th, I have seen a problem or 2 arise where the coating didn't live up to it's expections. The owner simply took it off and sent it back where it was recoated for free. The only bad part is you pay shipping for the header to the manufacture.
DWC said, header to close to tranny. Never heard that or anyone cooking there tranny. Run a cooler anyway no matter what header you run.
5th; Extra weight of the wrap. Laugh now, weight it later. You'll see.

[dwc43]

The tti's run extremely close on the drivers side where all the linkage, cooler lines are which is real bad for heat transfere. The wrap should not hold any water since the exhaust runs in the 1000 to 1500* range. They will dry out real quick. Never had any problem with the water, but I do recoat my own headers too. The wrap weighs the same before and after and it's mere ounces so that's not a big diff either. And your headers will still warp and heat cycle if your temps are off and weaken the metal just the same. It's impossible, even on a well prepped race car to get the exhaust temps even on each tube. You can get the close, but not even. And that requires intake mods, odd jetting from side to side on the carb and other carb mods. Even rocker ratios can be changed to even exhaust temps.

[FC7GTX]

I'm running a complete TTI system. 1 7/8" Ceramic Coated/w thermal barrier and 2 1/2" Exhaust. The headers fit great with 'no' clearance issues on any items. Even a mini starter will slid in and out without pulling the headers. I have heard A-body owners have a little tougher time (lack of room) but for these B-bodies they are the ticket. I have had no 'heat' issues, the headers clear all my linkage with no problem. I can R/R my tranny line and adjust tranny linkage without pulling the headers. They also seal at the head very well, never had a leak. My headers are about 3 1/2 years old and still look like I bought them yesterday. The coating is great. I have 'never' bought such a good set of headers. They are worth the money and more if you have it to spend. Also the plug wires with both the stock head(906 or 452) or Edelbrock heads clear very well. I never burned or had a issue with plug wires or plugs. Never saw a set of TTi's wrapped either. No need to with these. The X-pipe seems to be the most up-to-date set-up. I have the H-pipe but like I said the system is almost 4 years old. They didn't have X-pipe then. Also I am running the Dynomax Super Turbo which is what TTI recommends and I like the tone and performance. Good all-around Muffler. The only way you say they aren't worth it is if you never owned a set. (of headers that is). The big issue with these headers is price but like was said above, you get what you pay for.............

[ehostler]

IMHO there is only one brand that is superior to TTI and that is Headers By Ed. They give great clearance and al pipes are the same length. The draw backs - They are more than twice the cost of the TTI headers and they tend to have a 6 month to 1 year backlog.

[NZ 440R/T]

Originally Posted by FC7GTX

...Also I am running the Dynomax Super Turbo which is what TTI recommends and I like the tone and performance. Good all-around Muffler.

Hey FC7GTX. You have basically the same set-up as me but obviously yours is installed and running. How do you like ths ound of the Dynomax mufflers? Can you describe the sound better? Like from what I've heard the flowmasters are somewhat tinny sounding. Do the Dynomax have a growl to them, what rpms do they really wake up at? High rpms or low?


Thanks, real curious and excited.

[FC7GTX]

Originally Posted by NZ 440R/T

Hey FC7GTX. You have basically the same set-up as me but obviously yours is installed and running. How do you like ths ound of the Dynomax mufflers? Can you describe the sound better? Like from what I've heard the flowmasters are somewhat tinny sounding. Do the Dynomax have a growl to them, what rpms do they really wake up at? High rpms or low?


Thanks, real curious and excited.

Man, that's a tough question. I will say they sound nothing like flowmasters. I had flowmaster 3 camber mufflers on another (non-mopar) and they are very 'tinny'. I would never bolt them onto a mopar but that's my preference. The super-turbo's have a medium deep tone at idle and normal crusin but not obnoxious. WOT is a little tough to describe because I am usually a bit busy on keeping it in a straight line so I don't usually listen to it. A growl would be a good description at cruise and idle. I can still hear the engine at WOT so the mufflers don't overpower the noise level at WOT. You will like them unless you prefer a obnoxiously load muffler. They are an in-between muffler as far as noise goes. Wish I could describe it better.

Chris

[NZ 440R/T]

Originally Posted by FC7GTX

Man, that's a tough question. I will say they sound nothing like flowmasters. I had flowmaster 3 camber mufflers on another (non-mopar) and they are very 'tinny'. I would never bolt them onto a mopar but that's my preference. The super-turbo's have a medium deep tone at idle and normal crusin but not obnoxious. WOT is a little tough to describe because I am usually a bit busy on keeping it in a straight line so I don't usually listen to it. A growl would be a good description at cruise and idle. I can still hear the engine at WOT so the mufflers don't overpower the noise level at WOT. You will like them unless you prefer a obnoxiously load muffler. They are an in-between muffler as far as noise goes. Wish I could describe it better.

Chris

Why wish mate that was good enough for mwa.!
So vs a stock manifold set up it is louder? I've heard somewhere that they can get more quite rather than loud? Or is it the same level but a different tone?

Sorry mate I'm just curious as to what my car may sound like in 4 months.

[FC7GTX]

Originally Posted by NZ 440R/T

Why wish mate that was good enough for mwa.!
So vs a stock manifold set up it is louder? I've heard somewhere that they can get more quite rather than loud? Or is it the same level but a different tone?

Sorry mate I'm just curious as to what my car may sound like in 4 months.

It is louder then a stock set-up. I wake the neighbors up when I start it up. The tone does change but when your running at 5500RPM+, I doudt if any muffler gets quieter, maybe just a different tone. I've never got to hear it at WOT from outside the car. Don't think I would trust anybody to test it out for me. I get compliments all the time on 'that thing sounds mean' so it must sound good when your outside the car.

Go to the Dynomax website and listen to their wave files. The sound is similiar to those but you will still have variables. I know when I changed cams last spring the tone in the exhaust changes quite a bit. (Got quieter). It still sounds good but lost some of that pressure pop out the exhaust tips at idle. I like it better now.

[NZ 440R/T]

Originally Posted by FC7GTX

It is louder then a stock set-up. I wake the neighbors up when I start it up. The tone does change but when your running at 5500RPM+, I doudt if any muffler gets quieter, maybe just a different tone. I've never got to hear it at WOT from outside the car. Don't think I would trust anybody to test it out for me. I get compliments all the time on 'that thing sounds mean' so it must sound good when your outside the car.

Go to the Dynomax website and listen to their wave files. The sound is similiar to those but you will still have variables. I know when I changed cams last spring the tone in the exhaust changes quite a bit. (Got quieter). It still sounds good but lost some of that pressure pop out the exhaust tips at idle. I like it better now.

Thanks mate thats what I needed to hear........ahhhhhhh, all thats stopping me know is time.


Thanks again mate I'll check out the web site.

[ttraut@unlockit]

Thanks all for your input. DC's input notwithstanding, I'm going to go with the TT!'s. Will have to eat macaroni for a few more months....

Terry

[NZ 440R/T]

Originally Posted by ttraut@unlockit

with the TT!'s.

Top choice.

[zij576ca]

I'm running 1 7/8 tubed ceramic coated Hooker competion headers. Bought 'em from Summit for $375.

[speedfreak440]

zij576ca- how is the fit of your hooker headers, can you change starters, adjust tranny linkage, steer? lol, (I actually had that problem with a set of B-body headers one time). Anyway can you tell us what the overall fit is like also, what engine & what car are they in. I am facing the same dilema as far as cost on tti vs. hooker. thanks

[zij576ca]

Originally Posted by speedfreak440

zij576ca- how is the fit of your hooker headers, can you change starters, adjust tranny linkage, steer? lol, (I actually had that problem with a set of B-body headers one time). Anyway can you tell us what the overall fit is like also, what engine & what car are they in. I am facing the same dilema as far as cost on tti vs. hooker. thanks

Sure can...

I have a 69 RR with a 440/727 and manual steering. I installed the mini starter sometime back and there are no issues with taking the starter out with these headers. Even with the standard starter these headers have room, but dropping the starter will still be somewhat of a job. The header clears the steering column with room to spare and there are no problems with the steering linkage at all; you don't have to drop the center link, etc. I'm running a Hurst Quarterstick shifter so adjusting trany linkage isn't a factor.

Installation....

As with most headers (at least the sets I''ve installed) it's mucho easier if you lift the engine to put them in. I installed mine while installing the engine/trans into the car. Engine went in with no problems. The one problem I ran into was putting some of the header bolts in. A couple of the runners (#2 for example) take a very sharp turn off the exhaust port and it was a real bear getting those bolts in.

As for fit....like a snug pair of gloves. They do, however give you room to change plugs but you need both socket and box-end wrenches.

Anyone wanting pictures, send me a PM with your e-mail address and I'll get 'em to ya....

[BDS 871 Cuda]

Hughes engines claim the TTI headers dyno the best. I've always used Hooker super comps and had them coated by Jet Hot. All together it cost me close to $600. My custom set for the 70 Cuda tube chassis car was $1200 with the Jet Hot coating.
For my next street car I'll go for the TTI's.

[68polara]

i got hedman shortys with dynomax 2/1/2 super turbos i like the sound when i pull up people tell me that thing sound like it will run or what kind of motor you got in there. I had an muffler man tell me i dont care what type of exhaust you have its only going to do what the motor is putting out

[dwc43]

The shorties tend to rob potential power over long tube tuned headers. Your exhaust man is in the wrong. The whole exhaust sytem is part of the engine package and needs to be tuned to the engines needs. Too big a pipe and an engine will loose low end torque, too small, no top end. Header sizes and collector sizes and lengths also make a difference in how your engine will respond.

[speedfreak440]

thanks zij576ca I will probably go back with the hookers on my current Challenger project. I just can't get over paying that much money for a set of headers, thanks.

[zij576ca]

Originally Posted by speedfreak440

...I just can't get over paying that much money for a set of headers, thanks.

Neither can I. That's why I went with the Hookers. Nothing against TTI but the price, and custom headers will always cost you more.