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  #1  
Old 01-16-2005, 03:01 AM
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Default Block fill before or after machining?

I'm doing a partial block fill on my 440 block, should I do it before machining or after final assembly?
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Old 01-16-2005, 03:22 AM
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I would think before machining, since the block fill might impart some stresses on the block as it cures. Best to have it completely cured before machining to avoid any changes afterwards. Your machine shop should be able to tell you what's best.

torch
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Old 01-16-2005, 10:47 AM
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By all means, before the machine work is done. It can distort the bottom of the cylinders as it cures throwing off the bore job you just had done to it.
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Old 01-16-2005, 05:38 PM
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hello, be sure to torque the mains before grouting, at least 12 hrs in advance. I always bolt a deck plate on when done pouring grout in. you can use a cylinder head if no deck plate is available. a friend of mine grouted his 440 after all machine work was done, without mains torqued or deck plate installed. what a mess. out of round bores= lousy ring seal or lack of. If you read the directions from hard block, they stress, torque mains and use a deck plate. when the grout dries. then you can machine it and bores will be true.I've done a few blocks this way. just food for thought.
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Old 01-17-2005, 04:48 AM
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Yes, and I have also done it the other way round, after machining, using mains torqued down and heads bolted on. You should do it before machining, I had to rehone mine because the cylinder shapes changed.
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Old 01-17-2005, 05:08 AM
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Before it is. Thanks guys.
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Old 01-17-2005, 11:01 AM
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Before with the main caps on and torqued to specs. Also either the heads on and toqued or a boring plate on and torqued to spec.
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Old 01-17-2005, 11:41 AM
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Default Over filling with block fiiller

Word of caution about over filling a small block mopar. The sb Chevy with open head bolt holes can be filled closer to the deck than the sb Mopar with blind head bolt holes and still have good water movement. I have filled sb Chevys to just above the bottom of the water inlet hole. That will not work on a sb Mopar due to the blind head bolt bosses and the head oiling boss blocking off the top 1". I think about 1/2" below the water inlet is maximum fill for a sb Mopar. note: Not all sb Mopars have blind head bolt holes.
If a partial fill is planned, then there is no problem with water blockage.
I would think that brass core plugs are a must for a partial fill as the plugs may still contact water. I would hate to be the person changing a core plug on a filled block.
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Old 01-17-2005, 12:04 PM
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And same is true with the BB, blind head bolt holes. Fill it too high and the water will not circulate anymore. What is the intended use going to be?
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Old 01-17-2005, 02:39 PM
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Hi Dart, it's going to be a street/strip 440 stroker. I'm going to fill it to just above the bottom of the cylinders. I know I could probably go to the bottom of the ring travel, but I don't want to take the chance of over filling it. I hear it's a real pain to chip out.

Thanks for the heads up on torquing the main caps and heads.
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Old 01-17-2005, 03:30 PM
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If its for a street car make sure you gave a good cooling system and an oil temp guage.
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Old 01-18-2005, 03:18 AM
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I have done a few street engines with partial fills. Slightly above bottom of the freezeplugs didn't cause any kind of problems in a 400 block, either with 3.75" or 4.15" crank. Although can't really say for sure about the 4.15" since it hasn't seen so many street miles in different conditions. A 440 block filled to the top of the freeze plugs with a 4.15 stroke did show some signs of the oil heating up and loosing viscosity on longer highway trips. An oil cooler would propably have fixed that, that one nad oil temp gauge might not be a bad idea.
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  #13  
Old 01-18-2005, 04:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastback340
If its for a street car make sure you gave a good cooling system and an oil temp guage.
I'm going with a ally rad and for backup a manual switch electrice fan. Tempeture gauges and big coolers are good things on both engine and tranny. Often the first indication of a problem is a rise in oil/fluids tempeture.
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  #14  
Old 01-20-2005, 02:47 AM
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Default Had some success with it

Hi,
I just recently finished my 440 and did a partial fill to just below the bottom of the freeze plugs. I have an aluminum radiator, spal electric fan and an oil cooler. I don't have an oil temp gauge but the machinist I worked with on this motor said he used the same kind of oil coolers on 650hp circle track motors and the oil temp never got more than 30 degress higher than the water temp. Anyway, I don't have many miles on the car but we had it on a dyno for a good part of a day and the water temp never got over 200 degrees with full runs and long idle sessions, so I know that a fill to the bottom of the freeze plugs should be fine. Oh and we did the fill before the machining for the reasons mentioned previously. Good luck.

Matt
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Old 01-20-2005, 03:38 AM
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I am pleading ignorance here. Please tell me what the purpose/advantage is of filling a block. Rigidity perhaps?
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  #16  
Old 01-20-2005, 04:02 AM
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Thats the big thing. It strengthens the main cap web and in a partial fill the bottom of the cylindes. It helps keep them round for a better seal.
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  #17  
Old 01-20-2005, 04:27 AM
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It is said that it ties some of the harmonics in the block. It also stiffens the cylinder walls by shirtening the free floating "wing". Normally there is only water behind and it does nothing to prevent the cylinder wall from flexing under pressure. The concrete does, and when the free length shortens, the remaining wall will resist bending better too.
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