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  #1  
Old 01-26-2005, 03:55 AM
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Default Gapless rings

Hi, has anyone used gapless rings in a street/strip engine?

Thanks everybody for your help on my build up. I've picked all my parts based on advice I get here.
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Old 01-28-2005, 05:07 PM
TK TK is offline
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Question

can someone tell me how you get a gapless ring? ive never herad of one
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Old 01-28-2005, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dodgetkboy78
can someone tell me how you get a gapless ring? ive never herad of one
Sure they happen just before you pull the top off of a piston of followed closely by a loud expensive noise LMAO
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  #4  
Old 01-28-2005, 05:40 PM
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rolleyes

ok, so thast a gappless ring, i was tring to imagine how they did that
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  #5  
Old 01-28-2005, 07:09 PM
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Okay guys good laugh but they are real, this is from 440source.com
Childs & Albert
35ZX4.355 ZGS Zero Gap 4.350"
440 .030" Over 1/16, 1/16, 3/16 LOW $244

The top compression ring is two piece. The main piece has a landing machined on the inside/bottom of the ring that a thin inner ring (much like the top componet of a oil ring) sits in. Of course both rings have gaps, you just put the gaps at 180 degrees to each other.
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Old 01-28-2005, 07:14 PM
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now why did you think i asked?
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Old 01-29-2005, 09:16 AM
sanborn sanborn is offline
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Been waiting for someone to respond to your question. My son has used them(Total Seal, not C&A) on the street , they work fine. We use them exclusively in our oval track engines, but again we have only used Total Seal.

Gapless rings are more easily affected by excess engine heat than standard rings. Therefore, we use the gapless 2d ring and standard top ring. And, if you get the engine very hot (250+) under race conditions, it can lose its tension.

For a very hot street/strip engine, I would use them. But, expect to change them more frequently than standard rings.

Just remember; this information may be worth what it cost you!
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Old 01-29-2005, 04:14 PM
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Smile

now THATS why i asked
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Old 01-30-2005, 01:52 PM
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Default C&A vs. Total Seal

The C&A system is different from the Total Seal system

C&A uses a ring where the gap stepped. See
http://www.childs-albert.com/catalog/pdf/rings.pdf for a picture

Total seal uses two rings in the same grove in the piston. The gaps on the two rings are suppose to be set 180 degrees apart.

Unproven rumor - I have heard, and have no data to support, that the total seal rings will walk relative to each other until the gaps align.

I have the C&A ZGS rings in my duster, I won't say they made any improvement over standard rings, but they don't seem to be hurting anything either.

DB
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  #10  
Old 01-30-2005, 03:52 PM
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Thanks guys, Bill I like the idea of the C$A system. I hadn't seen their set up. I have a set of total seal I put in a 440 marine engine I built several years ago but sold the boat due to a job transfer, so I've never fired it up. Several years ago I read a article on ring gaps, and on a small block they got 25 hp increase by reducing the gap from factory settings to as small as possible. I've been told that you get ring "flutter" with them, but that dosen't make sense to me. The part of the ring that touches the cylinder walls is normal thickness.

This is just a thought if somebodies looking for a good block. I bought a set of marine 440s, I rebuilt the normal rotation block for the boat and saved the reverse rotation block for for a street engine. Any core shift, and thier was, I forget how much it was seven years ago, is too the thrust side of a normal rotation engine. Chris Craft are a good source for Mopar engines, big and small blocks. They have the good stuff inside. Fresh water cooling only!

Sorry DB78 I must have been in a bad mood.
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Old 01-30-2005, 04:40 PM
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Wink

thats ok, your way nicer than rumblfish i was just curiose, thanks fer the info
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  #12  
Old 01-30-2005, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanborn
Gapless rings are more easily affected by excess engine heat than standard rings. Therefore, we use the gapless 2d ring and standard top ring.
Hi Sanborn, do they make a set specificaly like that or do you make up the set yourself?
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Old 01-31-2005, 02:34 AM
DartGT66 DartGT66 is offline
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I have used both C&A ZGS rings and Total Seal rings in street & strip engines. They work in our applicationa and offer the advantage of low leak down % We have one '451' that is over 8 years old now, seen a lot of things, and it is still well below 5% in all cylinders. I really like the ZGS design better, being one piece it's less complicated than the total seal. They don't seem to give a power advantage at least in our case, we have gotten excellent results with file fit rings too, but the leak down measurement gives slightly bigger numbers to them. Most of the "pro" engine builders seem to favour file fit rings over the various gapless rings. A couple of friends of mine have experienced problems with their gapless rings they call "ring flutter". The rings have started to float creating really excessive blow by and actually popping something out of the engine (like a valley pan popped upside down & cracked). Both siwtched to file fits and the problem went away. These have both been pretty high winding engines and I really don't know what caused this problem. Most, like ours, have been trouble free.
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