360 balance/torque converter question

[benwest]

i have my transmission ready to go in and am wondering if i have the correct torque converter. it is a lock up transmission for a 85 ramcharger with a 360. but i have a 77 360 in the ramcharger. is it internal balanced or external and how can i check it and fix it? thanks

[TK]

360's are externally balanced, all of em.

[dodger1]

Hi, benwest. All 360's are externally balanced, and need a converter with an offset weight added to it. Are you bolting in a 904 or a 727? You need to be sure the converter is for the correct lock-up trans, as well as an externally balanced (pre-Magnum) 360. If it came with the 85 trans AND was previously hooked to a 360 it should be the correct converter. If you don't see an obvious weight tack-welded to the flex-plate side then it came from a 318 and will need either an externally balanced flywheel (B&M # 10239) or the appropriate weights added to the converter. Do a search of this forum for more info. Cheers!

[benwest]

i thought that some 360 were internalla balanced. the transmission is a lockup and it has a 360 torque converter. so i guess i need to know for sure that my 360 is externally balanced. how do i do that?

[Jacksdad]

318s and 340s were internally balanced but the larger reciprocating mass of the 360 required some of the balancing be handled outside of the block by the damper and torque converter. You can internally balance them, but that's not how they left the factory. There should be a small weight welded to the converter if it came from a 360. Did the transmission and converter come from the same vehicle? It sounds like you have the right one for the 360 motor, but just wondered if you know for certain that the converter is a lock up unit.

[TK]

carefull, cast crank 340's are externally balanced

[benwest]

what about factory steel cranks in 360s?

[benwest]

it is a remanufactured trans. lockup for 360. how do i tell for sure with no doubts that my 360 is externally balanced.

[TK]

im 99.9999 sure they never made a steek crank for a 360, not in factory form. dont worry, th e360 bottom end is waystronger than any other brands small block's. In a small dodge, cast vranks are not a big deal, there plenty strong!

[benwest]

i know! ever compare a 360 crank to a chevy crank side by side? its a joke!

[TK]

unless it has some trick machine work done, its externally balanced. The harmonic balancer should have a big chunk missing on about 1/3 of it, that means its externally balanced

[TK]

dude, chevy's are a joke, they were desighned cheap, engineered cheep, and put oin cheep running gear. I have seen small chev's that the timing chain was loose, even if it was brand new, cause they didnt bore the cam in the right spot. Also, the crank was a afterthough on a small chev, cause it hangs way out of the block, not good. for every 1 long lived chev, there were 10 that didnt live, thats not good numbers. Theryre heads breath better than dodge for hp, but they dont make the torque, ill shut uip now, bfor my bllood pressure gets too high

[Jacksdad]

Just got back from a weekend getaway with my kid and read the post about the 340 cast cranks. I stand corrected - forgot all about them. Thanks for pulling me up on that one. I tend to mess about with 360 motors pretty much exclusively as 340's avoid me like the plague. Every time I try and chase one down the owners either no longer speak english, think it's a national treasure and price it accordingly, the phone number turns out to be wrong, or it's a 318 pretending to be something else. I finally cracked and went the 360 route again. I just had to go through the internal/external balancing thing myself as I picked up a neutral 340 converter I'm planning on using with a 360/904. I got the funky B&M flex plate with the semi circular piece cut out to take care of the balancing issue. The reason I asked about the converter/trans combo is I'm doing some junkyard parts juggling at the moment - I'm trying to get a 904 lockup trans with a low gearset and 5 clutch front drum to hopefully work with a non lock up converter and it looks as though it needs at least the input shaft and valve body from an early transmission to do it. Got a pile of parts from no less than three transmissions laying around here. Now if I can remember how it all goes together without breaking out the duct tape, AND it moves the car, I'll be in good shape. Of course I could have used my head and just stayed with the 727, but oh no...

[Dart 65]

I have an '84 Ramcharger with a 360. It doesn't have an offset weight on it. It does have four small weights at 90 degree increments. As far as I know, everything is original and unmolested.

[TK]

are you talking bout the TC, or the flex plate?

[Dart 65]

I'm referring to the TC. The flex plate is the same as the MP unit for my 340.

[TK]

well, i knew this guy that put a 360 TC behind a 318, it ate the main seal and bearings out in a few thousand, alond with the front pump, so i dont know, ive always thought 318 and 360 TC's were diff. maybe yours is a exception.

[cutting torch]

Originally Posted by Dart 65

I have an '84 Ramcharger with a 360. It doesn't have an offset weight on it. It does have four small weights at 90 degree increments. As far as I know, everything is original and unmolested.

Look closer, Dart. I think those are your flexplate mount lugs. If there are weights on the convertor, they will be centered between the mount lugs.

torch

[TK]

hey, i went out and looked at my 318 converter (3500 stall) it has one wieght on it, it was built by a tc shop up here, and it haas been on a 318 for qui te a few thousand miles. so, can anyone tell me how to tell the difference?

[cutting torch]

Did it vibrate? I don't think I've ever seen or heard of a 318 that was externally balanced. If anyone knows of one that should be, I'd like to know.

torch

[Dart 65]

Don't they function as both? I was under the impression that they did.

[TK]

no, its internal, they all were, but, what im trying to get at is this guy must have balanced the TC to zero by putting a weight on it, so how do i tell wich is wich? oh, it didnt vibrrate, even at 7800 (it hit 8100 by accident once)

[creative1]

318's are internally ballanced... no weights on the converter

360's are externally ballanced... ALL OF THEM!... they had BETTER have some weights on the converter, UNLESS the flexplate has been replaced with an aftermarket flexplate ballanced for a 360.

[TK]

mine has a weight on the converter because??????????????????

[dodger1]

Seems to be a lot of confusion here regarding externally balanced small blocks. ALL 273's and 318's are internally balanced and have no weights on the converter (except as required to obtain a neutral balance - you won't notice it) All 360's are externally balanced and require an unbalanced harmonic balancer on the crank nose, (is that an oxymoron?) plus an unbalanced converter at the other end. The FACTORY converter weight is a pie-shaped chunk of 1/8" plate welded between two of the attach lugs and pretty well fills the gap (if it's there, you can't miss it!) between the ears of a stock flex plate. Which BTW is the same piece for 318 and 360 engines. If you've got a 360 without a weight on the converter, you've either got a B&M or equiv. unbalanced flexplate or you have an internally balanced aftermarket rotating assy. (Lucky you if you do!!) I've tried to include my rough sketch of the flexplate side of a stock 360 TC as well as a pic of the B&M unit (the bottom one in the pic - note the chunk cut out of it) Hope this answers some questions. Cheers

[TK]

thanks, so my weight was the tc guy balancing it, cool. by the way, may i add, 340 steel cranks are internally balanced, cast are external

[dodger1]

I left the 340 info out 'cause I couldn't remember which was which. Thanks

[TK]

i remember it cause i seen a oops o nthis bfore, course, the moron wouldnt listen to me, or my dad