better headers! come on!

[titan]

o.k. i just bought a fifth set of TTI headers for a fifth customer. great headers, but it's hard to get customer to pay twice the money over what he see's he can get in mail order catalogs. now, can someone explain to me why companies like hooker,headman, and others can't retool to bend up a set of TTI inspired headers and offer a competitive price? i mean the research is already done for them and i don't beleive anyone(TTI) can hold a pattent on the bending of pipe.Brian.

[rumblefish360]

lazyness is the word.

[stevekarlo]

Do TTI headers fit THAT much nicer? I'm thinking of a new set this spring but those TTI seem AWFULLY expensive.
Has anyone ever put a set of these on a 73 Charger with a 383/400 motor?

[fastback340]

I used the 1-7/8" TTI's on my 70 440 Cuda. Yes they fit that nice.

[dwc43]

Originally Posted by stevekarlo

Do TTI headers fit THAT much nicer? I'm thinking of a new set this spring but those TTI seem AWFULLY expensive.
Has anyone ever put a set of these on a 73 Charger with a 383/400 motor?

Not really worth the cash. Besides in that year car, you have all the room in the world. I own several of them mysself. The '73 is the year I am missing though. IT's the one everyone wants. The tti's set too close to auto trannys too. Good way to cook one with 1500* exhaust heat within inches of the auto, and it's cooler lines. Heat transferes you know.

[rumblefish360]

Twice the price and twice as nice. Heard that today from someone that also just sweared he never go back to another header company ever again.
Also note that the header coating is life time warrantied to the first owner.

[creative1]

Originally Posted by rumblefish360

Twice the price and twice as nice. Heard that today from someone that also just sweared he never go back to another header company ever again.
Also note that the header coating is life time warrantied to the first owner.

"lifetime " for me would be a long time... i plan on driving my '84 truck until one of us is dead and buried... and that will hopefully be another 30 years or so...

the "el cheapo" dynomax headers i have cost me about $150 in 1997, and they seem to be just fine, even though they do have an appetite for $60 spark plug wires. even with a lifetime warrantee, i am not sure that the TTI headers would be cost effective.

yes, i expect that i will have to someday upgrade the "el cheapo's"... but i think that i will try to design my own 2" versions... seeing as how the "header gods" have all decided that there is no way that headers can be run over the frame and down behind the front wheels of a truck, eliminating all the spark wire problems and the need for really creative exhaust engineering to keep hot pipes away from plastic fuel tanks ... and for the cost of TTI's (which dont address these issues) i can do a LOT of experiemneting...

[rumblefish360]

creative1;

"lifetime " for me would be a long time... i plan on driving my '84 truck until one of us is dead and buried... and that will hopefully be another 30 years or so...

Well GOD bless you and I hope it's more than 30 year of ownership and life for ya.
The few I do know of running tti's also have engines more suited to the power capable of this header.
The el-cheapo headers, if they work for ya, good. I can see the expense not justified at times.

[fastback340]

What I dont understand is people will spend $600 on a carb, $1500 on a set of heads and thousands of dollars on a paint job but feel $600 is to much for a set of headers when you can get a set for $200. Hell you can get a carb for $200 and Maco will paint your car for $150.

[dwc43]

[QUOTE=creative1
the "el cheapo" dynomax headers i have cost me about $150 in 1997, and they seem to be just fine, even though they do have an appetite for $60 spark plug wires. even with a lifetime warrantee, i am not sure that the TTI headers would be cost effective.
QUOTE]
Just wrap them and use Dei spark plug boots and that will cure the wire burning. We use Hedmans and Hookers which give you more room at the plug and wires. We have one old set that I really like and they are close, but with the wrap and boots on the wires, the boots actually touch the wrap and have not burned through in years.

[rumblefish360]

Plug wire boots are a great Idea to protect them from the hot header tube. I use a set w/my hooker Super Comps. Best little invetion in years.

[Dick]

Originally Posted by rumblefish360

Plug wire boots are a great Idea to protect them from the hot header tube. I use a set w/my hooker Super Comps. Best little invetion in years.

What are they made of, silicone?

[rumblefish360]

No, there a fabric. I don't know exactly. Very flexable. Like a super duty sock.

[dwc43]

And some versions will make you itch, so I bet there is some fiberglass in them. Some header wraps will make you itch by the time you wraped a pair, just as if you had just insullated 20,000 square ft building ... LOL!! Ask me how I know ... LOL!!

[rumblefish360]

Damn, ya know, ya freaking right. I did have one brand that did make me itch. I said the same thing...fiberglass! Current units used didn't do that to me.
Sorry everyone, don't remember ethier brand used.

[dwc43]

I've used Dei on the plug boots and Taylor makes them too and in colors, but I have not used them. I've used Dei and Thermotech for the wraps and I believe it's Thermotech that makes you itch. Funny, after it's run on the engine, I've never noticed getting an itch again.

[Dick]

Ain't nuthin' worse than an itchy fingered cop!

[dwc43]

Dpends on which fingure it is. If it's that trigger finger it could be bad.

[Dick]

Originally Posted by dwc43

Dpends on which fingure it is. If it's that trigger finger it could be bad.

Of course, we know where the other finger has been...........

[creative1]

i had some sleeves from taylor thay were gray/silver in color... silicone with some kind of heat resistant fiber inside them. they helped, but the header tube to spark plug clearance was so tight that the silicone burned off them, then they crumbled, allowing the boot on the wire itself to contact the header.#6 and #5 were the worst cylinders. even the short accel "header plugs" didnt help much, although they were better than the original sized plugs. the ratings on these sleeves i found out later was 600*.

just before christmas, i discovered that #5 and #6 wires had AGAIN bit the dust, and that the gray/silver heat sleeves werent any longer going to provide any more protection. i had just ordered a set of taylor wires, and decided that those wires werent going to be put on until i could do SOMETHING about the heat problem. so i continued to run the old (3 month old!) accel wires on my 200 mile (one way) trip to my family's place for xmas. by the time i got there, i had lost all fire in those 2 cylinders. i did some research and because i was close to a "big" city (kansas city) i was able to find a distributor for taylor products, and bought a set of taylor part # 2566 'space age boot protectors'. cost was about $60, but they are rated at 1200 or 1400*. so i limped the lead sled home and installed both the new socks and wires, but still didnt like the outcome. the 90* boots on the taylor wires are a lot bulkier than the 90* boots on the accel wires, and even though the new taylor socks are thinner and more flexible than the old gray/silver things, there was still NO clearance... i still had to force the wires against the header tube to get the wires to snap onto the spark plug.

so i got crazy or brilliant, i dont care what you call it. i made calls to spark plug maker tech people... they dont have a clue what they are doing... and spent probably 20 hours poring over sparkplug data that i could find on the internet, looking for a shorter spark plug. i knew they made them, i see them every time i go to the automotive section at walmart.

took the little info i was able to get and went to the parts store and talked to the manager there. showed him what i had (champion RJ12YC original spark plugs and the accel 8197 header plugs) and then explained as best as i could my problem. he got out his books and together we decided to try a chainsaw spark plug that is 5/8" shorter than the accel plug and a full 1" shorter than the RJ12YC... champion CJ8Y.

this got me enough clearance that i dont think that i need the 1200* socks anymore, but they are on the wires anyhow... just in case.

the plugs have now been in the truck for about a month (a little over 1000 miles on them) and i have had no problems. most of those miles were done 2 or 4 miles at a time, with 8 hours or more between startings. i havent removed the plugs to look at them, the weather hasnt been really cooperative here, and i have another vehicle that i am working on with major problems, so i probably wont get the chance until the track here opens... hopefully next sunday. but i can say that they havent fouled, and the one 100 mile trip i have made in the truck turned up no obvious problems, so i figure the heat range must be in the ball park.

and if it turns out these plugs arent going to do the job, i will look some more... but SOMEONE SOMEWHERE is making these short spark plugs with the extended tips, 14 mm threads, and 3/8" reach that have the right heat range. they HAVE to be... there are literally thousands of different spark plugs out there, and 90% of them are for automotive applications. and since there are only about FOUR different configurations for these plugs, there HAS to be an application that will do the job. i am not the only person that has these wire problems, so i cant be the only one looking for an economical solution. and a $1000 set of headers that might or might not cure the problem isnt my idea of 'economical'.

[Tarrbabe]

Does any know how well the Hooker Super Comp's fit on a 69 Dart SB?

[dwc43]

Not sure about a Dart, but they fit good in a Duster and that's pretty close to what you have.

[NZ 440R/T]

Originally Posted by fastback340

What I dont understand is people will spend $600 on a carb, $1500 on a set of heads and thousands of dollars on a paint job but feel $600 is to much for a set of headers when you can get a set for $200. Hell you can get a carb for $200 and Maco will paint your car for $150.

AMEN!!! Thats exaclty right, you pay for what you get. If your car in your own mind deserves cheap headers, by all means pay less and get crap. They only cost more due to the work involved in making them and the quality.

I know when I ordered my TTi header and exhaust system it was going to be money well spent on a great fitting system that would basically slide straight in and also give me a lot more clearence room, better hp/T gain and better fuel economy.

[Tarrbabe]

In the first place, I don't beleive Hooker's are Cheap. Next I have to question any header that compromises performance for fit. Hooker Super Comp's have always been equal length and perform great. IN NO WAY AM I PUTTING TTI DOWN. It is no doubt they make a great FIRST QUALITY PRODUCT. But when it comes to performance they are a little below the Hookers.

The question you have to ask is why do you use headers? To increase performance some, or all you can? For a street ride I can see where most would want convience over performance when the difference is small. I have to go back to why I went to MOPAR to begin with. I use to run Chebbys and finally got tired of being beat by the BIG BOYS in the MOPARS. I put 7 engines and 13 transmissions in a 56 Chevy and still couldn't beat the Dodge boys. Since I switched, I have been more than pleased with my efforts. I want performance and assurance from my rides and I get it but I am careful to go after proven performers. That is why I like Hookers. Besides, I love that sound of equal length tubes with a really good cam. SWEET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[NZ 440R/T]

Glad you enjoy Hooker headers. TTI's are still number one on the market for the best of everything. Fuel, HP/T gains, longitivty, and fit.There are better headers out there but there basically gfor full on strip, so having them on a street car is usless, I forget the name.

[stevekarlo]

Originally Posted by dwc43

Not really worth the cash. Besides in that year car, you have all the room in the world. I own several of them mysself. The '73 is the year I am missing though. IT's the one everyone wants. The tti's set too close to auto trannys too. Good way to cook one with 1500* exhaust heat within inches of the auto, and it's cooler lines. Heat transferes you know.

Well I dont want to broil the tranny. The ones on now are old, Can't remember brand, either Heddman or Blackjack, but they are pretty tight to the starter, - causing heat soak problems on the old starter and I can't remove the starter without unbolting the header. And the number 5 plug boot touches the header (been able to help that a bit with insulating sleeve on the wire). But I'm really looking for a set that is the easiest to install. and can help minimize these problems.

[dwc43]

Originally Posted by stevekarlo

Well I dont want to broil the tranny. The ones on now are old, Can't remember brand, either Heddman or Blackjack, but they are pretty tight to the starter, - causing heat soak problems on the old starter and I can't remove the starter without unbolting the header. And the number 5 plug boot touches the header (been able to help that a bit with insulating sleeve on the wire). But I'm really looking for a set that is the easiest to install. and can help minimize these problems.

I'd look at some Hookers and not the cheaper street stuff. Wrap them and use the Dei plug boots and you want have a problem with that. You might want to try a mini starter if you think clearence is a big issue. I don't make it a habbit of pulling my starters off though. They also make a starter blanket to keep header heat off the starters.

[stevekarlo]

Originally Posted by fastback340

What I dont understand is people will spend $600 on a carb, $1500 on a set of heads and thousands of dollars on a paint job but feel $600 is to much for a set of headers when you can get a set for $200. Hell you can get a carb for $200 and Maco will paint your car for $150.

Fastback 340 - not against spending money for a good product BUT have you priced kids braces lately? Got to have some give and take cause the ol wallet only stretches soooo far. Now if you want to see some really expensive metal, my daughter has a mouth full!!

[TK]

get a new starter from crhysler, it sworth it, iv never wore one out that was new

[dwc43]

Ouch!! I bet that is pricey.