500 stroker pistons

[pharmon]

My 17 yo son is building a 440 to slide into a '73 Scamp. He wants to clone more or less the 500 wedge from MP. 4.15 stroke with a 4.380 bore. Idlebrock performer heads with the 84cc chamber. As I understand it you effectively loose about 1-1.5 compression with aluminum over iron. We want a static cr of 10-10.5. Can anyone recommend a forged piston? Make and model # would make his day. Maybe the service part# from MP!

thanks,

AJ currently leads pro-stock, wow it's been a while.

[toad490]

Give these guys a try, Brandon seems like a good guy to deal with and they have what you need. I've heard good things about what they sell.
http://www.440source.com/

[pishta]

Youll never lose compression over an equivalent CC's head, I dont think I understand your statement. You can increase your compression and not ping with an AL head with a smaller CC chamber, is that what you were getting at? AL dissapates heat much faster and that keeps the chamber cooler, reducing the detonation point.

[toad490]

Originally Posted by pishta

Youll never lose compression over an equivalent CC's head, I dont think I understand your statement. You can increase your compression and not ping with an AL head with a smaller CC chamber, is that what you were getting at? AL dissapates heat much faster and that keeps the chamber cooler, reducing the detonation point.

Pishta, he's right, aluminum heads stretch/expand more than iron heads, and you lose one full comperession point.

[pishta]

Holy cow, you learn something every day! I really never heard of that, AL rods stretching, but never heads, wow...so you run them a little tighter than an iron head to keep your compression at an optimum level and you are pinging all the while it is warming up?

[toad490]

Its not a result of heat, like ally rods they stretch more than steel. Its from cylinder pressure, right from the get go. I'm sure its probably a combination of things but I think thats the main one.

[dkn1997]

the reason you need at least a point more compression when going form aluminum is that heat makes HP. the aluminum dissipates the heat so much better that, as previousely stated in this thread, it results in less detonation and a cooler chamber.

if you took two identically dimentioned (valve size, port shape and size) heads and the only difference was what they were made of, the iron head would make more power.

when switiching to eddy heads, the big power increases are not due to the higher compression that you can run, but rather the port design of the heads.

[dkn1997]

Originally Posted by pharmon

My 17 yo son is building a 440 to slide into a '73 Scamp.

I would have killed myself at 17 if I had that car.

[toad490]

Originally Posted by dkn1997

I would have killed myself at 17 if I had that car.

Me too, and having raised two boys, I don't think we were much different than most 17 year olds. Keep it at the strip for a few years, you'll sleep better Friday and Saturday nights.

[ehostler]

Boy, talk about making up engine math as you go... The cc of the AL head does NOT change. You can go 1 - 1.5 more on the compression ratio (before detonation), as the AL head dissapates heat quicker/better than iron. It's a fact. You can ask pro engine builders, INDY heads, Edelbrock, and many others. They will confirm that. They will all laugh at you, if you try to tell them that the cc on the AL head is not a constant.

[pharmon]

Thanks to all for the response. If my son was like me I wouldn't sleep if he was driving a skate board. stretching heads, no, like Ed said it's all about the temp. Part #'s is what I need. Toad, thanks, I try 440source. Bye the way, the schmaucker mounts for bb in a a-body work just fine we got the motor in yesterday, no power brakes though.

part #'s please.

regards,
Phil

[toad490]

Originally Posted by ehostler

Boy, talk about making up engine math as you go... The cc of the AL head does NOT change. You can go 1 - 1.5 more on the compression ratio (before detonation), as the AL head dissapates heat quicker/better than iron. It's a fact. You can ask pro engine builders, INDY heads, Edelbrock, and many others. They will confirm that. They will all laugh at you, if you try to tell them that the cc on the AL head is not a constant.

Well I'm embarrased.

Pharmon, your probably right......a 17 year old who would rather spend the weekend with his dad putting a 500 inch stroker in a A body than chase girls around the mall. How close to the tree could that apple of fallen????

[rellik eeb]

Just build a 493 stroker, no need to over bore a 440 block .060 for no reason. The extra cubes will be offset of strength, possiable cracking, and such, save some extra stuff there for future builds, no need to max it out. and If you havent heard, most stuff from MP is junk. I run Probe Industreis in my 493 they have the skinny rings, and a good compression height what your after, I run a 493 last summer with Eddy heads, near zero deck (.005 in the hole) for around 11:1 comp no detnation at all, but a well thought out timing curve is needed, this was in a heavy 69 B body, on pump premium. The new engine should run on pump gas, thanks to little extra's near 12:1 full ported 440-1's and 32 deg total timing. Not sure what heads you plan on running, but eeven with the much better flowing eddys over stock heads, the engine has a case of topend asthma and was all done at 6K rpm's. Here is a link to the pistons. These are great pistons for the price, I got them for cost through my machinest around $350

http://www.probeindustries.com/Pisto...ler_496_ft.htm

[ehostler]

Great link for another American company.

[pharmon]

Rellik, the motor is already .060 over, try to tell a 17yo something, anyhow, looks like probe has the part. 11 to 1 with 84 cc heads and flat top(good) jugs. Thanks a lot!

regards,
Phil

BTY, i'll be back, what to do with the RE, 8.75 for a a-body not easy to come by, anythoughts?

[djswwg]

Probe's are great pistons, you can also try www.rosspistons.com ...djs

[Robertson_Tech]

Originally Posted by pharmon

Rellik, the motor is already .060 over, try to tell a 17yo something, anyhow, looks like probe has the part. 11 to 1 with 84 cc heads and flat top(good) jugs. Thanks a lot!

regards,
Phil

BTY, i'll be back, what to do with the RE, 8.75 for a a-body not easy to come by, anythoughts?

Phil how about a new s 60 http://www.strangeengineering.net/newprod1.html

[Robertson_Tech]

Originally Posted by djswwg

Probe's are great pistons, you can also try www.rosspistons.com ...djs

Wow there are a lot of selection now, any one else remember what pistions we had to use back in 76 to build a 451? Hint not MoPar

[Robertson_Tech]

Originally Posted by toad490

Give these guys a try, Brandon seems like a good guy to deal with and they have what you need. I've heard good things about what they sell.
http://www.440source.com/

anyone else try them?