Moparchat - Home of MOPAR enthusiasts worldwide!



Go Back   Moparchat - Home of MOPAR enthusiasts worldwide! > Technical Forums > Performance Talk

Click here to search for Mopar cars and parts for sale.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-28-2005, 12:21 AM
michaelmopar michaelmopar is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: tyler,tx
Posts: 262
Exclamation Tranny Kickdown 904

i have just upgraded to a holley 600 cfm and the kickdown rod is a push not a pull and the alignment geometry is not right also the holley is set up for a pull not a push, anyone else run into this problem and what did you do.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-28-2005, 01:26 AM
64dartwagon 64dartwagon is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: North Highlands/Ca
Age: 50
Posts: 447
Default lokar

I went to a lokar kickdown cable setup as it works with any setup, just type Lokar in the search area and you will see lot's of info and pics.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-28-2005, 01:59 AM
arbito arbito is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Seattle/Wa
Posts: 9
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 64dartwagon
I went to a lokar kickdown cable setup as it works with any setup, just type Lokar in the search area and you will see lot's of info and pics.
I just put this same setup on my Dodge 77 Tradesman 318 with 904. I'm having trouble adjusting it. It's seems to be shifting into 2nd gear really late.

Thanks, Jess
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-28-2005, 04:33 PM
John Kunkel John Kunkel is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: NorCal
Age: 80
Posts: 10,059
Default

To make a Holley work correctly on a Mopar you need the Mopar throttle lever extension (Holley #20-7).

This extension allows the use of the stock Mopar throttle stud and linkage.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-28-2005, 07:11 PM
michaelmopar michaelmopar is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: tyler,tx
Posts: 262
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Kunkel
To make a Holley work correctly on a Mopar you need the Mopar throttle lever extension (Holley #20-7).

This extension allows the use of the stock Mopar throttle stud and linkage.

Do you know what will allow a edelbrock 600 cfm to work with factory linkage on a 82 d 150 318 w/ 904.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-29-2005, 05:50 PM
John Kunkel John Kunkel is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: NorCal
Age: 80
Posts: 10,059
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelmopar
Do you know what will allow a edelbrock 600 cfm to work with factory linkage on a 82 d 150 318 w/ 904.
Edelbrock #8021, basically the same part as the Holley equivalent.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-02-2005, 01:17 AM
TrashedCharger's Avatar
TrashedCharger TrashedCharger is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Lakewood, Co.
Age: 42
Posts: 675
Default

In addition to your extension linkage, you may have to make some extension brackets to bring the kickdown pedistol that mounts to your manifold outward to align with the new bracket as a 4bbl brings the setup about 3" outward from a 2bbl. you may have to tweak some of the rod as well.

Cables are the easyest way to go, but if you want the solid linkage, you're gonna have to do some fab work or find a factory 4bbl car to swipe the linkage off of.

I would just go and spend the $75 on a LoKar cable setup if you're not familiar with transmission work or kickdown modifications. If you don't get the linkage adjusted correctly, it can give your transmission low fluid pressure under throttle loads and the clutches can slip. Kickdown does a lot more than just shift your transmission under load. It govorns your valve bodies fluid pressure and aids in clutch lockup for solid drive. A disconnected or poorly adjusted kickdown in a stock valve body will murder your transmissions lifespan and will turn a healthy transmission into a black fluid builder core.

LoKar kickdown sets come with adjustment instructions according to throttle position percentages and are easy to install and adjust. You should be able to do the same thing with linkage, but you have to improvise on the carburetor and judge the correct position for kickdown engagement.

Also realize that a 4bbl will increase HP and torque, so adjustmens made to a 2bbl type linkage should be considered too light for the current setup, as the transmission will need more kickdown to hold up against the new load as HP and torque increases.

This means that you'll need less throttle opening position on a 4bbl for full kickdown engagement compared to a 2bbl setup to correct for the needed higher valve body fluid pressure... But whatever you do, do something and don't drive it disconnected. It's hard enough on high milage transmissions to up your HP, let alone deprive it of fluid pressure by leaving the kickdown off.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-02-2005, 06:16 PM
John Kunkel John Kunkel is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: NorCal
Age: 80
Posts: 10,059
Default

The transmission doesn't know or care whether the carb is a 2-barrel or 4-barrel, the linkage travel and position determines when the transmission upshifts and downshifts.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-10-2005, 04:53 AM
TrashedCharger's Avatar
TrashedCharger TrashedCharger is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Lakewood, Co.
Age: 42
Posts: 675
Default

Of course the linkage travel always stays the same. They don't change any part of the kickdown system hard parts in leingth. I'm talking about the numbers coming from the engine and the transmissions needs.

I am refering to the horsepower and torque differences between a 2bbl and a 4bbl engine and at what horsepower and torque level the kickdown circuit should be engaged. A 4bbl on the same engine is stronger, generally speaking, than a 2bbl.

This means that the transmission is subjected to more load than when a 2bbl is in place. The oil pump pressure fed through the transmission is also govorned by the kickdown linkage under different throttle positions. The transmission will need higher fluid pressure for the correct circuit engagement without slipping under the higher HP and TQ levels of a 4bbl engines output. This is also why it's a good idea to go with a high performance clutch and band set to resist slipping under higher loads.

This ultimately means that the transmissions kickdown linkage will need to be adjusted to come in sooner because of the engines higher output for higher fluid pressure and sooner low gear engagement.

The reason for the bracket fabrication is because the 4bbl carb is wider than the 2bbl and the linkage will need to be relocated to accept the new throttle linkage arm. You're right. The leingth of the linkage does not change.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-10-2005, 05:51 PM
John Kunkel John Kunkel is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: NorCal
Age: 80
Posts: 10,059
Default

A factory 2-barrel and 4-barrel will have the carb throttle lever positioned the same distance from the centerline of the manifold. Most aftermarket carbs such as the Holley and Carter position the lever closer to the centerline and have the linkage holes in the wrong place to maintain the proper Mopar linkage ratio. The difference in centerline dimension between the OEM and aftermarket carbs is a mere one inch (not 3").

Installing the correct Mopar throttle lever extension on the aftermarket carbs brings the throttle lever outboard to the proper centerline distance and places the carb stud at the correct position relative to the throttle shaft to maintain the linkage ratio. Depending on the intake manifold, the linkage bracket position doesn't need to be changed.

With the factory linkage there is no difference in total linkage travel between a 2-barrel and a 4-barrel, so the notion that the linkage must "come in sooner because of the engines higher output" is pure nonsense.

The capacity of each transmission is designed to meet the power needs of the motor it's attached to, the position of the linkage will be the same for a given throttle opening whether a 318 or a Hemi. While bringing the linkage in sooner will raise the internal pressure relative to the throttle opening it will also raise the upshift speed and this isn't necessary or desirable.

If still in doubt, check the factory parts books and you'll find that the only part different between a 2 and 4-barrel is the length of the top rod since the 2-barrel throttle shaft sits further aft; the bellcrank and lever length remains the same.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-11-2005, 07:52 PM
TrashedCharger's Avatar
TrashedCharger TrashedCharger is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Lakewood, Co.
Age: 42
Posts: 675
Default

"The capacity of each transmission is designed to meet the power needs of the motor it's attached to"

If you are going from a 2bbl to a 4bbl, the carburetor is therefore changed which means that the capacity of the transmission is no longer relevant to meet the power output of the current engine's HP and TQ levels. Especially on a high milage transmission. This is not dealing with a factory setup, this is a modified setup. The torque converter also sees a little higher engagement RPM.

Actually, if you wanted to modify the drivetrain the correct way, you would need to bring in a transmission setup that actually did meet the power needs of the current modification made to the engine. In this case, you can improvise by bringing the kickdown in a little closer. Not talking a whole lot, but just enough to compensate for the slightly higher stall and power output of the 4bbl changover. about 1/4" past stock centerline (plus the 1" difference for the carb) in length change is all it takes.

I was refering to the width of the carburetor being about 2.5-3" in difference, side to side. Not in centerline length, but the change in carb width.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-12-2005, 03:28 AM
Tarrbabe Tarrbabe is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Cumberland Plateau
Posts: 1,972
Default When you mix and match partrs...........

you can run into all kinds of problems. I'm sure someone makes the right parts for you and if I had access to them I would have used them. Truth be told, I spend a month re-adjusting a dodge years ago before I got it right and as I remember, I even used a torch once to ADJUST one part.


Worked great when I got thru.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-15-2005, 11:02 AM
273dart 273dart is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Green Cove Springs, Fl, USA
Posts: 116
Default Kickdown linkage

I see that there is lots of good advice-so how about some more.
I just put an edelbrock 4 brl and a throttle lever adapter kit on my 273-was a 2 brl. The original kickdown rod is bent at an angle, which points up-but will not slip into the rear bracket hole on the intake manifold, but if I turn the rod upside down (angle down) it fits into the carb adapter and the rear linkage. Will this work? It seem to me that adjustments can still be made (???). I even thought about straightening the rod and bending it in the opposite direction. The reason that I am asking the question is; last November, wife and I went to Big Daddy Don Garlets, annual Mopar Car Show, Ocala, Florida and I took lots of pictures of the engine compartment so I can get my dart back together(just kidding). I was looking at the pictures while putting the engine together and one of the pics showed an Edelbrock 4 with the attached linkage (68 dart 273)-it looks like the kickdown rod was upside down. OK, lets have it. By the way, all spelling and grammer errors is my wifes fault.
Thanks

Dave Davis
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Lokar Kickdown on 727 Tranny superflylover Ram Truck Chat 7 11-28-2007 05:31 PM
727 tranny - no kickdown and shifts way to quick QUADDAK Performance Talk 15 03-15-2007 10:05 PM
kickdown cable vs. kickdown linkage for 440-6 pack cudagra Restoring your MoPar (Tricks & techniques) 3 12-20-2005 09:27 AM
Need a tranny kickdown FARGO318 Performance Talk 10 05-03-2003 03:39 PM
Tranny kickdown / line pressure linkage c318cuin Performance Talk 7 10-20-2002 12:40 PM




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
. . . . .