Oil pumps...what type?

[J-440]

I've always heard that for a 440, the stock oil passages are fine for a 500 hp motor. Anything over that, you need a 1/2"-3/4" external line with a swing arm pickup and hi-po pump. I'm building a 440 with (hopefully) 750 horses that will be used for road racing/autocrossing and am a little confused. I'm pretty sure you drag racers use an external line but lemme here some comments. Thanks

J-440

[dwc43]

If your going road racing, I'd use that swinging pick up and a good race pan from Kevko.

[J-440]

Yeah but use the stock 3/8" oil passages and an in pan pickup or go with a bigger outside line and hi-po pump?

[dwc43]

I'd stay inside the pan, and go up to the 1/2 line. If you go all out on the engine, I'd go dry sump next. I have the parts for that and Sanborn can give you good info on running a dry sump sence they use them on the late models.

[DartGT66]

Getting 750 horses out of a naturally aspirated 440 will take some rpm. I think the peak power will be between 7000 and 7500. The suction side of the pump needs most help, although there is also preferable internal passage mods (enalrgening the oil galleys between the crank and the right lifter galley, enlargening the front of the right side lifter galley, bushing lifter bores).
1/2" pick up is a very good idea even in drag engines and that kind of rpm. In an autocross or road race car, the requirements are even bigger. You will need to have a top notch oil pan that keeps the pick up covered with oil all the time. With a wet sump I would go with a dual line external set up. You can't have a too good oiling system in that kind of use.

[J-440]

Here's the deal, the car will be s-charged and not NA so 750hp with the right mods should not be a problem. I got a 7 quart custom oil pan from Tim Herran of All-Time Racing. Trap doors, kickouts, baffles you name it he put it in there. I also will be using a 3 quart Accusump as a backup, a complete Milodon oiling system with swing arm pickup, hi-volume pump, and a single external 3/4" line. Duel lines I think might be a little extreme for this "mild" buildup but I understand where ya'll are coming from. And to be honest, this car will be a 70/20/10 car. 70% street, 20% road race and 10% 1/4 mile. Let's face it, I'm not a retired millionaire who can travel to Laguna Seca every weekend but I do want the car to be bad ass. The occasional outing of a parking lot with orange cones and other wannabe road racers is probably more feasable. So, with that said, you guys think she'll hold up or can you give me more ideas? Thanks again for your help.

[dwc43]

Originally Posted by J-440

Here's the deal, the car will be s-charged and not NA so 750hp with the right mods should not be a problem. I got a 7 quart custom oil pan from Tim Herran of All-Time Racing. Trap doors, kickouts, baffles you name it he put it in there. I also will be using a 3 quart Accusump as a backup, a complete Milodon oiling system with swing arm pickup, hi-volume pump, and a single external 3/4" line. Duel lines I think might be a little extreme for this "mild" buildup but I understand where ya'll are coming from. And to be honest, this car will be a 70/20/10 car. 70% street, 20% road race and 10% 1/4 mile. Let's face it, I'm not a retired millionaire who can travel to Laguna Seca every weekend but I do want the car to be bad ass. The occasional outing of a parking lot with orange cones and other wannabe road racers is probably more feasable. So, with that said, you guys think she'll hold up or can you give me more ideas? Thanks again for your help.

Your set up sounds like it will do just fine for what your running. NOw you need big brakes and big sway bars with slightly firmer bars and springs with very agressive shocks. Don't go overboard and put real stiff t bars and springs on it, cause it wont like it. Even in our NASCAR oval track cars we keep the springs as soft as possible. Too stiff the tire lifts as it jumps a bump in the road. Softer spring with a strong shock follows the bump up one side and down the other. Good example is a lifter on a cam lobe too.

[J-440]

One more thing. The oil pan that I received came with a 3/4" fixed pickup. Now does a 440 have enough material to drill and tap a new hole for this pickup instead of using the stock 3/8" pickup? Also, all of the oil passages inside the block are 3/8" correct? What is the purpose of using a 1/2" or even a 3/4" pickup for only a few inches if the entire block is 3/8"? Am I missing something?

[dwc43]

Originally Posted by J-440

One more thing. The oil pan that I received came with a 3/4" fixed pickup. Now does a 440 have enough material to drill and tap a new hole for this pickup instead of using the stock 3/8" pickup? Also, all of the oil passages inside the block are 3/8" correct? What is the purpose of using a 1/2" or even a 3/4" pickup for only a few inches if the entire block is 3/8"? Am I missing something?

I know it has room for a 1/2 but not sure if it has enough roomd for 3/4. Anything that you can do to reduce the restriction on the suction side of the pump is a big help. Increasing the passages from the pick up to the pump would help too.

[J-440]

DW, yeah but the average 1/2" pickup is what 7 or 8 inches long and then after that you go to 3/8" all the way through the block. Is that 1st 7 or 8 inches critical? Just curious because the Hemi had the 1/2" pickup and that's what all the pro engine builders tell you to do is to enlarge the pickup on the 440.

[jelsr]

I think we're kinda comparing apples and oranges here. The large external pickup is to ensure no cavitation at the pump where there is only atmospheric pressure helping. The pump can move a great deal of oil thru a 1/2" line when aided by 80 PSI or so.

[J-440]

Ok, I see the deal. Thanks for the help guys now one more question. Why the hell does ARP not make oil pump studs for a 440? I've checked with Jeg's, Summit and even friggin Mopar Performance and nobody makes the 4 studs (or bolts for that matter) that bolt the pump to the block. You guys no something I don't? Thanks again.

[dwc43]

It's not under any stress like a rod bolt or main, so there is really no need for a high dollar bolt or stud. Still not sure why they make them for intakes either. Certainly no strain on them, right.