Not shifting into reverse

[ttraut@unlockit]

Today I drove my 69 Roadrunner around for about 100 miles; it's the first time I've been able to shake it down this summer after putting in a rebuilt engine, new clutch, etc. As was going fine until the end.

When I push the clutch in to shift it into reverse, the gears grind. Even when pressed to the floor.

Also, I noticed that when I push down on the clutch and release the clutch, there's more creaking and groaning than normal, like something's out of whack.

I haven't crawled under the car since I got home. Any ideas where to start looking? Might something have worked loose?

Thanks for the tips.

Terry

[Dick]

If it grinds going into reverse, the input shaft is still turning, indicating that the clutch is not releasing all the way. The reason it doesn't grind going into the forward gears is because they are all synchronized.

[Ray Bell]

Yeah, I'd say something has worked loose... can you check the clutch fork without taking the tranny out? I'd say the problem is in that area... don't you think so Dick?

[Ray Bell]

Oh, yeah, just an outside chance of this one...

Are maybe the bellhousing bolts coming loose?

[Dick]

As I recall, he put in a heavy duty clutch. Maybe the Z bar and linkage couldn't stand up to the extra pressure and something has bent a little. You could be right and something has loosened up. Another possibility is the pilot bushing is tight on the input shaft. He didn't say if this was a problem from the get-go or after the 100 mile shakedown, during which he might have rawhided the piss out of it (Do ya think?). I would have!

If it was from the start, then something is out of line or set up too tight or incorrectly. If it happened after the shakedown, then something has shifted or loosened or bent.

[ttraut@unlockit]

Thanks guys. Dick's right, I went with a Ram clutch that is an upgrade from stock.

I'm thinking my problem's in the z-bar, mounts, or clutch fork since when I press on the clutch, things sound creaky -- like they're out of whack.

From a stop in neutral, I can shift into first but it requires a bit of pressure to push the shifter into gear. So this seems to confirms that something's come loose.

I DID just put in the pilot bushing last weekend and it pressed in nice and tight. The transmission shaft went in with a bit of persuasion; the tip of the shaft was lubed a bit.

I can also check the fork by dropping the bellhousing dust cover.

I'll check the shifter rods as well as I installed a new bracket that connects the shifter to the transmission.

Hell, I'll just check it all. I'll give you a report tomorrow.

And no, Dick, I did not rawhide the piss out of it. Okay maybe a bit, but with a new engine begging to be spanked, who can blame me!

Thanks!

Terry

[Ray Bell]

Of course, living in Australia, I have never (literally never!) seen the clutch linkage of the type you have...

But I have known of plenty of bent/worn/broken through clutch forks on various cars.

Dick might well be onto something with that pilot bush, too... if you damaged that putting the engine onto the box it could well be dragging. You might think, "Oh, okay, well it will wear in," but don't. If it 'wears in' with the shaft out of alignment by any amount at all, you'll be living with a gearbox that jumps out of top gear.

When you drop that cover, get someone to work the clutch while you watch what happens and listen for the noises. Maybe even hold onto the links (the ones that you can hold onto without getting pinkies jammed!) and you might 'feel' the noise.

When you get this sorted, you gotta promise you do give it a spanking... of course...

[Tarrbabe]

But with the Pilot bearing being tight, I'd almost bet that is the problem. It should not be tight. It may wear to fit over time but it would be a pain. If everything else is okay, I'd replace the bearing or clearance it to fit without any interferance.



Just thinking out loud:

[Ray Bell]

Yeah, sounds that way, maybe the noise is that of the shaft turning the bearing inside the back of the crank?

I would replace, not try to enlarge. You must have it concentric or you can damage the gearbox. A $3 bush... replace...

[Tarrbabe]

I agree. The part is cheap. Labor is more but you can cause more damage if you try to leave it and live with it.

[Dick]

The bushing should be a press fit in the crank, but a slip fit on the shaft. If the bushing was O/S and pressed in too hard, it would have collapsed the bore a slight amount and made for a tighter fit on the shaft, which wouldn't be good.

[DAHEMIKOTA]

The recomended proceedure is to burnish the bushing after it is installed. It is an oilite bushing. It will collapse when it is pressed in. That is normal. Chrysler has a special tool for sizing the bushing after instalation. The tool # is C-3181.
The proceedure stated in the service manual is:"Slide new bushing over the pilot of tool C-3181 and drive into place with a soft hammer. This causes bushing to tighten up on pilot. Install cup and puller nut and tighten, removing tool from bushing. This action burnishes the bushing to the exact size and leaves a smooth and lasting finish." I have seen your problem many times and reaming the bushing seems to have bad results most of the time. Dan

[Dick]

Reaming an Oilite bushing will close up the pores and defeat the self-lubricating quality. Your method makes sense with the installation and sizing tool.

[ttraut@unlockit]

I hear you on the bushing. I did rap on in pretty well to get it in and I didn't test it with anything for collapsing. It didn't LOOK like anything collapsed.

However, the car shifted nicely into reverse for the first 100 miles or so. If the bushing was the problem, it would have actually been tough shifting from the beginning, correct?

I DON'T want to drop the transmission again if I don't have to! (Read my other posts if you want to hear sad tales of clutches and transmissions!)

I'm betting that it's a linkage issue and the clutch disk isn't releasing from the flywheel... Okay, I'm HOPING that it's the linkage....

Report coming later today.

Thanks,

Terry

[Ray Bell]

In all probability, if it had been the bushing it would have been a problem from the start...

Do your visual check of the clutch linkages, check the bellhousing bolts, jack up a back wheel (if you don't have a Sure Grip... if you do, jack both) and put it into gear, get someone to floor the clutch and see if you can turn the wheel.

[ttraut@unlockit]

Well, the problem was one of adjustment. The clutch link needed adjustment. I had adjusted the link after reinstalling the tranny and working the clutch pedal some. Evidently driving the car caused everything to work in.

I tightened the linkage another 1/4-3/8" and no grinding; smooth shifting.

While I had the car up on blocks, I checked everthing from the z-bar through the clutch fork and all is tight!

Thanks!

Until my next question.....

Terry

[Dick]

Originally Posted by ttraut@unlockit

Evidently driving the car caused everything to work in.

So, Terry, how many smoke shows does it take to "work in" a new clutch?

[Ray Bell]

You are such an untrusting soul, Dick...

Echo my sentiments too. But as you already recommended that the kid have his fun, I guess we just wait for the next question.

Drive on Terry... mind the price of gas though!

[Dick]

Originally Posted by Ray Bell

You are such an untrusting soul, Dick...

Echo my sentiments too. But as you already recommended that the kid have his fun, I guess we just wait for the next question.

Drive on Terry... mind the price of gas though!

.........But Ray, you know that a 383 4-yank is 75% of the formula for "go crazy". I know, I have owned 2 and I kept the local Goodyear dealer in luxury cars and the cops in therapy for a long time..............back when I was young and foolish.......a new car for $2800 and gas @ .19/gal.

[Ray Bell]

You needed a 383 to do that?

I managed it with a 1300cc Simca Aronde and a seemingly limitless budget for fuel, tyres and speeding tickets.

At least it had layback seats...

[Dick]

Originally Posted by Ray Bell

At least it had layback seats...

...........For those times when a smokeshow just wasn't enough.........

[ttraut@unlockit]

Well, after making the adjustment (tightening the clutch linkage 3/8"), shifting was smooth as silk... for about an hour (and a couple of "test holeshots").

Now it's back.

Looking underneath, it seems like the engine is settling in. The problem is that the oil pan is sitting right on the steering linkage now; there used to be about 1/16" space between the pan and the linkage bar.

Thinking that my new engine mounts may be damaged allowing the engine to slide around (which may account for the clutch problems) and down (which may account for the engine resting on the steering linkage), I jacked the engine up until the front wheels started coming loose.

There's definite wear happening from the steering linkage. And it wasn't a problem when I first installed the engine. I've attached a picture. This is after 150 miles of driving.

1) Does a new engine on new mounts "settle in"?

2) The engine mounts I installed were to be used with my 383 but I never got around to installing them; are the motor mounts the same for the 440 (which is what I have in the car now) as for the 383?

3) When I rev the engine with the clutch pushed in, I can definitely feel the torque of the engine as it's transferred up through the clutch pedal. Should there be that much movement in the engine?

4) Thoughts?

Thanks!!!!!

Terry